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Turntable Speed Tachometer and Speed Controller from Phoenix Engineering

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  • Turntable Speed Tachometer and Speed Controller from Phoenix Engineering

    TAS Equipment Report
    by Andre Jennings

    Phoenix Engineering Eagle PSU and RoadRunner Tachometer
    -
    Peace of Mind and a Touch of Convenience

    Link Here: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...er-tachometer/






    Dre
    "With the RoadRunner, the speed setting of any turntable can be observed in real-time all of the time. " "The Eagle PSU is a 25-watt AC-voltage-regenerator motor-controller/power supply with speed adjustment of +/-1.0rpm in 0.01rpm steps."
    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day to play analog.
    - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
    - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day for live music.
    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day to listen to music.
    **************************************************
    Industry Affiliation:
    Contributing Writer, The Absolute Sound
    **************************************************

  • #2
    been using and enjoying these products for a few years. The Eagle didn't exist when I acquired the falcon and because of my experience and that of other early adopters the Eagle was born out of the need to run higher wattage motors. The Flacon got too hot to the touch w/ the VPI 10W motor. Great write-up for a product that was way overdue and fills an important niche.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rob View Post
      been using and enjoying these products for a few years. The Eagle didn't exist when I acquired the falcon and because of my experience and that of other early adopters the Eagle was born out of the need to run higher wattage motors. The Flacon got too hot to the touch w/ the VPI 10W motor. Great write-up for a product that was way overdue and fills an important niche.
      Thanks Rob.

      The RoadRunner gets my recommendation for any turntable.

      I recommend the pair (RoadRunner and Eagle PSU) if they work with the turntable configuration.

      They (RoadRunner and Eagle PSU) received a TAS Golden Ear award from me for 2016.

      Dre
      **************************************************
      Every day is a good day to play analog.
      - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
      - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
      **************************************************
      Every day is a good day for live music.
      **************************************************
      Every day is a good day to listen to music.
      **************************************************
      Industry Affiliation:
      Contributing Writer, The Absolute Sound
      **************************************************

      Comment


      • #4
        agreed, the RoadRunner tach is great for any application. I used it with all my tables, now I'm running it on a Oracle. The Immedia RPM-2 was the one 'table with the platter bottom partially submerged into its plinth making placement of the magnet impossible without some modifications. I thought about mounting the magnet on the side of the platter above the belt but for various reasons didn't for unease about false reads. This particular install was an anomaly, o'wise its a well thought out device.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rob View Post
          agreed, the RoadRunner tach is great for any application. I used it with all my tables, now I'm running it on a Oracle. The Immedia RPM-2 was the one 'table with the platter bottom partially submerged into its plinth making placement of the magnet impossible without some modifications. I thought about mounting the magnet on the side of the platter above the belt but for various reasons didn't for unease about false reads. This particular install was an anomaly, o'wise its a well thought out device.
          Hi Rob,

          It would have worked on your RPM-2 in that configuration with a little effort to orientate the sensor board for the field detection. I did it with the magnet mounted to the side of the platter on the Grand Prix Audio Monaco 'table (and several others) without problem once I achieved a working orientation for the sensor board.

          Dre
          **************************************************
          Every day is a good day to play analog.
          - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
          - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
          **************************************************
          Every day is a good day for live music.
          **************************************************
          Every day is a good day to listen to music.
          **************************************************
          Industry Affiliation:
          Contributing Writer, The Absolute Sound
          **************************************************

          Comment


          • #6
            I've owned the Eagle & Roadrunner for about 1 year now. They replaced a Walker Motor controller. It's an excellent product and a terrific value. The You Tube videos and measurements on diyAudio were very insightful.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dre_J View Post

              Hi Rob,

              It would have worked on your RPM-2 in that configuration with a little effort to orientate the sensor board for the field detection. I did it with the magnet mounted to the side of the platter on the Grand Prix Audio Monaco 'table (and several others) without problem once I achieved a working orientation for the sensor board.

              Dre
              Interesting. I've known of these devices for some time but ruled out the Tachometer for my GPA Monaco for similar reasons to Rob's. Would you pls describe the setup for the Monaco or have a snapshot? TIA

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tima View Post

                Interesting. I've known of these devices for some time but ruled out the Tachometer for my GPA Monaco for similar reasons to Rob's. Would you pls describe the setup for the Monaco or have a snapshot? TIA
                No Pictures. It was a very busy (and long) day with 3-4 off-site test case implementation data acquisitions.

                The setup for the Monaco if I remember correctly was as follows:
                -Mount the magnet to the vertical side of the platter's outer edge.
                -Invert the sensor board and mount it to the rearmost of the three GPA Monaco support posts/feet
                -Adjusted the sensor board mounting for proper distance to trigger the Hall Effect sensor

                That's probably one of many imaginable scenarios but that's the one I used for my testing at the time.

                Dre
                **************************************************
                Every day is a good day to play analog.
                - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
                - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
                **************************************************
                Every day is a good day for live music.
                **************************************************
                Every day is a good day to listen to music.
                **************************************************
                Industry Affiliation:
                Contributing Writer, The Absolute Sound
                **************************************************

                Comment


                • #9
                  I really like the idea of being able to see speed variances as an LP is being played, so I may have to put the Roadrunner on my want list. At double the price I'm not sure if the Eagle is something I'd invest in as I can adjust speed on my Oracle. I realize what's being offered in tandem, and if I had the money I would invest in both, but I could probably get as accurate doing it manually.

                  Thanks for the review Dre and bringing it to my attention.
                  Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

                  Comment


                  • Dre_J
                    Dre_J commented
                    Editing a comment
                    My pleasure, John.

                • #10
                  Originally posted by Dre_J View Post

                  No Pictures. It was a very busy (and long) day with 3-4 off-site test case implementation data acquisitions.

                  The setup for the Monaco if I remember correctly was as follows:
                  -Mount the magnet to the vertical side of the platter's outer edge.
                  -Invert the sensor board and mount it to the rearmost of the three GPA Monaco support posts/feet
                  -Adjusted the sensor board mounting for proper distance to trigger the Hall Effect sensor

                  That's probably one of many imaginable scenarios but that's the one I used for my testing at the time.

                  Dre
                  Thanks for the follow-up.

                  -Invert the sensor board and mount it to the rearmost of the three GPA Monaco support posts/feet

                  That's where I'm most curious as the Monaco feet are largely conical.
                  I wish there were better pictures of the sensor, its mounting options and its dimensions on their Web site and in product documentation. I suppose once you see it (buy it) its easier to assess.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Dre, Thank you very much for starting this thread and for writing the TAS review. I read the review at the time and am most curious to try these in my system. I think you mentioned that you tried these with an SME turntable, but there were no specifics in the review. Could you please tell me which SME model you tested and describe the results or impressions?

                    I'm also curious to know if you could, in any way, hear or detect any hunting for the correct speed in your listening tests? Did every turntable you tested result in clearly audible improvements or where there any audible issues that some describe hearing of the constant corrections with some DD turntables?

                    I use the SME Model 30/12 and SME V-12 arm and have been using the Sutherland TimeLine for periodic speed adjustments.

                    PS. You are a most welcome contributor to this forum and to the staff at TAS. I have really enjoyed reading your articles.
                    System link: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
                    Micro Seiki SX8000 II, SME 3012R, vdH Colibri GC 0.25 mV
                    Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1 Signature, Lamm ML2.
                    Vitavox CN-191 corner horns, NOS cables, Ching Cheng power cords

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by tima View Post

                      Thanks for the follow-up.

                      -Invert the sensor board and mount it to the rearmost of the three GPA Monaco support posts/feet

                      That's where I'm most curious as the Monaco feet are largely conical.
                      I wish there were better pictures of the sensor, its mounting options and its dimensions on their Web site and in product documentation. I suppose once you see it (buy it) its easier to assess.
                      The sensor board is approximately 21mm x 31mm. The normal mounting approach with the adhesive on non-component side of board is explained in the user manual. For the Monaco, I need some improvisation and double sided sticky tape but it was doable. Aesthetics were not my concern during the test case. One would need to find the mounting configuration that meets their additional need if that's a concern.

                      The RoadRunner confirms the Monaco's speed stability as I loosely hinted at in the report.

                      Dre
                      **************************************************
                      Every day is a good day to play analog.
                      - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
                      - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
                      **************************************************
                      Every day is a good day for live music.
                      **************************************************
                      Every day is a good day to listen to music.
                      **************************************************
                      Industry Affiliation:
                      Contributing Writer, The Absolute Sound
                      **************************************************

                      Comment


                      • Guest's Avatar
                        Guest commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thanks.

                    • #13
                      Originally posted by PeterA View Post
                      Dre, Thank you very much for starting this thread and for writing the TAS review. I read the review at the time and am most curious to try these in my system. I think you mentioned that you tried these with an SME turntable, but there were no specifics in the review. Could you please tell me which SME model you tested and describe the results or impressions?

                      I'm also curious to know if you could, in any way, hear or detect any hunting for the correct speed in your listening tests? Did every turntable you tested result in clearly audible improvements or where there any audible issues that some describe hearing of the constant corrections with some DD turntables?

                      I use the SME Model 30/12 and SME V-12 arm and have been using the Sutherland TimeLine for periodic speed adjustments.

                      PS. You are a most welcome contributor to this forum and to the staff at TAS. I have really enjoyed reading your articles.
                      Peter,

                      I'll try to answer your questions that are applicable to your configuration if I can.

                      -Although some of the test case results were very interesting, there were no specifics in the report of any of the 13 tables because it was a focused report about the core performance of the RoadRunner Tachometer and (when applicable) Eagle PSU.

                      -The SME model was the 30/12 in the same configuration you use.

                      -While your configuration can't use the Eagle Controller due to the SME 30/12 having a proprietary drive system, there were no perceived (or measured) 'hunting' anomalies typically associated - by some individuals- with early DD 'table designs implementing 'constant correction'. This was true on any of the table combinations that were capable of using the complete (RoadRunner/Eagle) system.

                      -As mentioned in the report, the 'tables that could use the complete (RoadRunner/Eagle) system all had long-term speed stability that surpassed the same 'tables without using the pair of accessories. In all cases, there were no audible downsides to using the combination that was noticed.

                      Specific to your table:
                      -Since the 30/12 uses a proprietary drive system, the Eagle could not be used in that configuration. Only the Roadrunner tachometer could be used. In that case you are using a real-time tachometer that can display drift do to the situations mentioned in the report. It can only tell you what some of the drive system is doing during usage. The long term speed correction requires both devices (RoadRunner/Eagle) to work in tandem.

                      Dre
                      **************************************************
                      Every day is a good day to play analog.
                      - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
                      - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
                      **************************************************
                      Every day is a good day for live music.
                      **************************************************
                      Every day is a good day to listen to music.
                      **************************************************
                      Industry Affiliation:
                      Contributing Writer, The Absolute Sound
                      **************************************************

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        The speed controller for SME 'tables already utilizes a closed loop system like the Phoenix but with 3 hall sensors instead of the one. In theory the SME should have better speed control than the Eagle/RoadRunner combo, not that the phoenix is a slouch in that dept. IMO the Phoenix is the way to go if your a/c powered ' table has no controller that regulates speed or a very rudimentary system than doesn't have the ability to self monitor and correct speed variations autonomously.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Thank you Dre and Rob for your responses. I do not hear speed issues with my SME 30/12, but because many people feel that belt drive turntables are inferior to DD tables when it comes to speed accuracy and consistency, I was curious about these two devices and whether or not they would improve performance. I was not aware that the Eagle controller could not be used with the SME. That is great to learn. Many thanks.
                          System link: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
                          Micro Seiki SX8000 II, SME 3012R, vdH Colibri GC 0.25 mV
                          Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1 Signature, Lamm ML2.
                          Vitavox CN-191 corner horns, NOS cables, Ching Cheng power cords

                          Comment

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