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Vinyl vs.15ips 1/4" 2-track (1/2-track) Open Reel Tape? No. Something else.

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  • Vinyl vs.15ips 1/4" 2-track (1/2-track) Open Reel Tape? No. Something else.



    This is more of a "One Configuration of Dre's Vinyl-to-Tape" project post.

    What do I mean by that?

    Well, given some recent posts on Audionirvana that were not really related to the subject of the thread, but migrating that way, had began to move to declaring a couple different sides of the issue of sonic quality of either format vs. the other.

    You can read the threads here:
    https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/all-things-reel-to-reel/125910-how-often-are-you-listening-to-tapes?p=126393#post126393

    and Here:
    https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/all-things-reel-to-reel/126514-relative-cost-of-r2r-to-vinyl-hardware

    The Audionirvana links shown above tend to mention a preference by the participants and ultimately works towards an either or situation about sound quality.


    I have my thoughts about the topic and have said so in those threads like the following:
    Originally posted by Dre_J View Post

    I've known this long before even acquiring my machines (Six of them: With four being fully calibrated studio mastering decks). A good, well setup and well selected, vinyl playback system is excellent. So is a good, well setup and selected, tape playback system. what determines the outcome when the two are optimized is the source material and how it was laid down on the medium.

    IMO, of course.

    Dre
    And here:
    Originally posted by Dre_J View Post
    ...

    However, I've done the comparisons with the tapes I have and the results seem to be based on the factors I mentioned above (bolded in quotes). This is with my setup and equipment.

    I can understand your view that appears to be more associated with very limited availability production master tapes than what is generally available to a larger audience - which is usually a generation or two or more below that.

    With tape playback, I've become pretty picky. Therefore, I now use a fair amount of caution when adding to my collection. In many ways, this has significantly slowed my attempts to add more tapes to my library; I now refuse to add tapes just for the sake of having more tapes. I prefer tapes (1/4" 15ips and 30ips) that go above what the transfer-to-vinyl produced. If not, why bother?

    Given the cost involved in acquiring them, I view tape playback as if it should be a step beyond (or closer to the original) what vinyl does. That is how I approach the process of acquiring tapes as a personal goal. As such, I judge each individual tape by how it contrasts with 'my' vinyl setup in my home. Some tapes don't make the cut. Some tapes are in the realm of different but equal, and some tapes are clearly superior.

    The obstacles associated with each format are known to many of us and we have to deal with them as best we can. Expanding those things mentioned in my original reply include the equipment (tape decks sound different just like vinyl playback setups) being used for playback and during the process of making each source (tape or vinyl) as well as the source material (which master tape or safety/production; which generation) and, of course, the methods (and equipment) used to make the end result. I'm trying to stay broad with my observation of the reproduction and mastering/production chain.

    Dre
    In a nutshell, I've basically said it depends on many factors that determine how the preference comes out. These factors, not completely inclusive of all of them, are mentioned in my quotes above. Basically, I can and do enjoy both formats: equally.

    Others have shared their thoughts on the subject in the links above to one degree or another. Each one is valid: based on their opinion and experience.


    Given my signature displayed below every post I make, it's pretty obvious I enjoy both formats. I don't have a single reservation about playing either format in my setup under any circumstance or for anyone.

    For the past few years, in addition to having commercial reels with me, I've compiled a couple of 15ips reels of music I've recorded from one of the configurations of my vinyl setup for listening purposes. Those listening purposes were mainly for use with published show coverage (AXPONA and RMAF) of systems exhibited that contained 15ips capable open reel tape decks. What having these reels allowed me to do was to remove the issues of unfamiliar music or tape province during playback. This in turn allowed me to hear familiar music recorded from a familiar source (in this case: TT/'arm/'cart/phonostage to MRL recording calibrated 15ips tape deck) played back on the exhibitor's source component in order to gauge system playback: as best one can in a show environment.

    The first few times I did this, I didn't know what to expect from carrying a tape to an unfamiliar source playback component or system. However, I thought it to be much like carrying vinyl or digital (CD/SACD/files) music to be played in these rooms for the same purpose on supporting source components. To my delight, the recorded music played very well in most (if not all) of those environments. Exhibitors and listeners, would ask what tape or music is that? Inevitably, I'd respond that it's a transferred recording of one of my vinyl setup configurations for evaluation of familiar music/source. Many were, let's say, surprised and commented that it is a very good vinyl setup - I say that with modesty. Those comments were neither here nor there for the purpose of the reel's use but it was nice to hear that the playback was enjoyable - it helps keep the reel spinning the full 33 minutes to the end when that happens: which was always the case.


    With that said, what I'm thinking of doing is this:

    I'm considering providing one of my reels of vinyl-to-tape transfers from one setup configuration to share with just a few Audionirvana members so they can hear a somewhat generation, or two, removed tape recording from what was sent to my MRL calibrated (record and playback) Mastering tape deck - I may make a copy for this purpose instead of sending the original. So, the thought process is that my vinyl-to-tape project can give a few Audionirvana members a chance to hear the tape transfer on the very machine they use at home to playback their own tapes. This effectively transports (no pun intended) one of my vinyl playback configurations to their home: with limitations, of course.

    I know there are limitations to this project but it has worked very well for the original purpose of doing the transfer. Yes, it is vinyl-to-tape at 15ips (CCIR/IEC eq) and you will get all of the surface noise of vinyl and some spots where the pressings were less than perfectly quiet if they are captured on the recording. Many of us get that, it's sometimes part of vinyl. I made no (nor will make any) attempt to splice/remove pre or post music recorded noise. However, I think it may be useful for a few to hear someone else's (or a less than completely "bit-perfect" copy) vinyl setup. In this case one configuration (of many available to me) of a vinyl setup as recorded.

    This idea is not for judgment or a winner. It is merely intended to provide a chance to listen to another, and most likely different, vinyl setup via use of our tape playback systems.

    What do you think?

    Dre
    Last edited by Dre_J; 11-13-2019, 12:06 AM.
    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day to play analog.
    - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
    - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day for live music.
    **************************************************

  • #2
    I would love one to compare / hear. I plan to do the same on digital at some point. One of my best digital tracks is a vinyl rip to dsd128
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • Dre_J
      Dre_J commented
      Editing a comment
      ok Al

  • #3
    The fundamentals of "vinyl sound" will always come back, ultimately, to (both): being a combination of the cutting engineer's ear as well as the compromises made to dynamically squeeze the signal to work within the limits of the media format itself. I don't think the expense of the turntable system does ANYTHING to erase how much the signal transfer to that domain is altered and inherently flawed...as corrupted in its own way as anything a sub-256kbps mp3 can be faulted for.

    Funny, that you should mention surface noise as-being the tell-tale sore point of the vinyl sample: to me, surface noise was/is the last thing I'd be bothered with from a record (mainly, out of expecting it). I don't like the overall hollow nature of the bass nor the progressively grating muddiness of the inner bands. A reel to reel, on the other hand (even commercially dubbed from a second-generation safety copy at 90ips; circa 1966), NEVER had any of those problems and, has been the preferable format to my ears ever since I first heard it.

    I never bought into the idea that vinyl can be mastered from a "master tape". The mere notion of there being, in essence, a mandatory re-equalized "step-down copy" -just to press a commercial copy to make it playable on the consumer end- theoretically proves it cannot be. I, also, never believed in the buggaboo regarding (reasonable) high-speed tape duplication; as somehow (allegedly) representing a more-negative variable in quality control than, say: what the mechanical tolerances of a stamper are after 1000 copies vs. the first several hundred.

    30ips is a joke: bass is too soft and insane head wear.

    Comment


    • mep
      mep commented
      Editing a comment
      If you think all LPs suffer from "hollow bass," you have something seriously amiss with your table/arm/cartridge. Ditto for the "progressively grating muddiness of the inner bands." This sounds like a comment on a Kenner Close and Play record player.

  • #4
    Originally posted by JS Hoover View Post
    The fundamentals of "vinyl sound" will always come back, ultimately, to (both): being a combination of the cutting engineer's ear as well as the compromises made to dynamically squeeze the signal to work within the limits of the media format itself. I don't think the expense of the turntable system does ANYTHING to erase how much the signal transfer to that domain is altered and inherently flawed...as corrupted in its own way as anything a sub-256kbps mp3 can be faulted for.

    Funny, that you should mention surface noise as-being the tell-tale sore point of the vinyl sample: to me, surface noise was/is the last thing I'd be bothered with from a record (mainly, out of expecting it). I don't like the overall hollow nature of the bass nor the progressively grating muddiness of the inner bands. A reel to reel, on the other hand (even commercially dubbed from a second-generation safety copy at 90ips; circa 1966), NEVER had any of those problems and, has been the preferable format to my ears ever since I first heard it.

    I never bought into the idea that vinyl can be mastered from a "master tape". The mere notion of there being, in essence, a mandatory re-equalized "step-down copy" -just to press a commercial copy to make it playable on the consumer end- theoretically proves it cannot be. I, also, never believed in the buggaboo regarding (reasonable) high-speed tape duplication; as somehow (allegedly) representing a more-negative variable in quality control than, say: what the mechanical tolerances of a stamper are after 1000 copies vs. the first several hundred.

    30ips is a joke: bass is too soft and insane head wear.
    Is that reply of yours your understanding of what my original post is about?

    Since you've brought up issues that were not really what this thread was intended to be about, I'll try to answer them very briefly. I don't spend much time trying to convince individuals to change or alter their beliefs. It's usually a lost cause and the results are less than if they experience the counter-alternative themselves. Hence my reason for offering a glimpse of one person's configuration (of many) of a captured vinyl playback system on a format those who have tape playback capability can hear. It's all in my original post above.

    Saying a turntable system doesn't do anything to alter how a signal is transferred to the LP is like me saying my playback tape deck doesn't do anything to alter how the commercial tapes I buy were produced. Of course not. The commercial tapes or LPs were made without the use of our playback equipment. Now, if you think a turntable system is a turntable system and no amount of adjustment or component quality (notice I didn't say cost) will change or alter what's heard by the listener, I'd have to disagree. Much the same way I'd have to disagree along the line of the same situation with using a tape deck. In short, the playback equipment and its upkeep matters for both formats. Practical application is king, IMO.

    Regarding my comment about surface noise is less about "noise" and more about the recorded vinyl songs aren't pristine. In my original post I said we get that. It has never bothered me because the majority of my vinyl plays without any issue in terms of surface noise being a problem. Trashed vinyl pressings belong in the trash. I don't keep those around.

    As far as hollow bass and progressive muddiness: I believe that issue is more associated with playback technology of the past. There is nothing hollow or muddy about these recordings I have: nothing. If it were, do you think I'd offer them for listening, let alone play them in a exhibition environment (AXPONA or RMAF)?

    The comment about tape mastered to commercial vinyl is your opinion and I respect that. I see it differently and, as stated, I enjoy both formats without any of the issues raised in your post. Practical application has a funny way of showing itself everyday.

    If you think 30ips bass is too soft, I don't know what to say. My playback of Count Basie or Jim Morrison at 30ips would probably disagree, I'm sure.

    I'm not here to declare a winner. I enjoy both formats because they can both sound excellent when both are properly setup to be optimal.

    Again, the reason for the thread was to offer a chance to listen to a "OK" vinyl setup through recorded tape.

    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day to play analog.
    - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
    - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
    **************************************************
    Every day is a good day for live music.
    **************************************************

    Comment


    • Dre_J
      Dre_J commented
      Editing a comment
      Aright Tim

    • astrotoy
      astrotoy commented
      Editing a comment
      Add me please. Larry

    • Dre_J
      Dre_J commented
      Editing a comment
      done

  • #5
    Andre was kind enough to send me both of his mix tapes and I enjoyed them both. My favorite is the tape that comes on SM 900. The primary reason being the vinyl he selected for this tape are not only great recordings, but they have low noise floors. As those of us who play vinyl know, we are all at the mercy of the quality of the vinyl used in the recordings we purchase. I'm sure we have all bought records that were noisy on the first play. It's a bold move to record LPs to tape and bring that tape to audio shows and have it played. I would be proud to bring the SM 900 tape to any audio show and have it played in rooms which have tape playback capability. It's that good.
    SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

    Comment


    • #6
      After thinking about this project a bit more, I've decided to make a copy of my original vinyl-to-tape transfer.

      My reason for making this copy for distribution is to avoid the loss in an event where the tape is damaged in transit or in use by the recipient while away. I made those original tapes for a different purpose and would be disappointed if my time-stamped archive of those captured system configurations were lost.

      So, what I'll do is take a fresh Recording The Masters SM900 reel of tape and place it on my Studer A820 as the destination machine while playing back my original tape on my Otari MTR-10 (instead of my second A820) with Flux Magnetics playback head through it's output stage (not my tube output driver). This should render minimal alteration and provide a nice second generation copy.

      Right now, I have Tim and AL as interested parties. As soon as I have the transfer completed, I'll let them know the particulars with shipping and communication.

      Dre
      **************************************************
      Every day is a good day to play analog.
      - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
      - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
      **************************************************
      Every day is a good day for live music.
      **************************************************

      Comment


      • #7
        I've completed the transfer of the original Vinyl-To-Tape (VTT) reel to a second generation copy. This copy is what will be shared with those who were/are interested in hearing it.

        Right now, I have three individuals on the VTT list. The VTT reel (RS2-b) is packaged and ready to ship to its first recipient. It will go out tomorrow and, if all goes according to plan, will be in the hands of the first person on the list for the weekend.

        Since I'm managing the duration of stay and directing shipment of the VTT tape travel, we will work to have the tape in the hands of the next person on the list the following weekend. That's the agreement I asked of all participants. This approach keeps the tape moving along while giving the recipient the weekend to listen.


        About the VTT reel chosen:

        The original VTT reel was recorded at 15 ips with CCIR/IEC record EQ on my Otari MTR-10 Studio Mastering tape deck calibrated to 355 nWb/m using Recording The Masters SM900 tape.

        Much like a live recording, there was enough variance in the recorded music from my vinyl front-end to benefit from the SM900 tape in order to capture dynamics without the saturation of other types of tape that can not take that plus a higher signal level as well. It's a form of precaution in my case. For what is recorded on this tape, it was a benefit.

        For the VTT copy, I chose to keep the same Ref Flux level of 355 nWb/m and to allow the recorded levels to match the amount on the original VTT reel. Each of the individuals receiving the tape should be able to adjust the levels as needed for their playback machines. I put a lot of signal on the tape to match the original (it's hot!).

        The VTT copy was played and verified to be a good transfer even though we know each transfer gives up a little with each copy.

        Once again, this is not a vinyl vs. tape project. Instead, it is a chance to listen to another vinyl configuration (of many available) for another perspective. From the original post in this thread "This idea is not for judgment or a winner. It is merely intended to provide a chance to listen to another, and most likely different, vinyl setup via use of our tape playback systems."

        If a reader is still not sure what we are doing, read the original post.

        Dre
        Last edited by Dre_J; 11-13-2019, 07:45 PM.
        **************************************************
        Every day is a good day to play analog.
        - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
        - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
        **************************************************
        Every day is a good day for live music.
        **************************************************

        Comment


        • #8
          The Vinyl-To-Tape (VTT) reel #RS2-b was successfully delivered to the first listener this past weekend.

          The recipient can post their thoughts but all indications are the session was a success. Success in terms of listening to another vinyl configuration (of many available) transferred to tape for a a different perspective.

          That was the goal: Once again, this is not a vinyl vs. tape project. Instead, it is a chance to listen to another vinyl configuration (of many available) for a different perspective. From the original post in this thread "This idea is not for judgment or a winner. It is merely intended to provide a chance to listen to another, and most likely different, vinyl setup via use of our tape playback systems."

          As of today, the VTT reel RS2-b is on it's way to the next listener.

          Dre
          **************************************************
          Every day is a good day to play analog.
          - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
          - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
          **************************************************
          Every day is a good day for live music.
          **************************************************

          Comment


          • #9
            I was lucky to get to play the vinyl transfer to tape at my place. I played it 3 times.
            a few thoughts his vinyl rig must be very good while it had a tape sound to me in its powerful presentation it also was very analog in sound. It kept me wanting to play it.
            while I love vinyl now tape is less stressing to play. So I’m the end in part convince gives me a more relaxing playback. Im a fidgety guy tape lets me wander lol.
            his transfer seems to be his vinyl rig , this is cool I felt I was like at his place. A big thanks to dr J a very nice guy and kid of him to take the time to share works.
            I look forward to any other tapes he may share. I asked him to share his system so I can put sound to vision.
            thanks dre j
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #10
              Once my analog is setup well i would like to try this as well. I can feed my tape record and playback to my system as vinyl plays. This is what I hope to do to hear it as it records. I’ll post as go.
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #11
                Originally posted by mep View Post
                Andre was kind enough to send me both of his mix tapes and I enjoyed them both. My favorite is the tape that comes on SM 900. The primary reason being the vinyl he selected for this tape are not only great recordings, but they have low noise floors. As those of us who play vinyl know, we are all at the mercy of the quality of the vinyl used in the recordings we purchase. I'm sure we have all bought records that were noisy on the first play. It's a bold move to record LPs to tape and bring that tape to audio shows and have it played. I would be proud to bring the SM 900 tape to any audio show and have it played in rooms which have tape playback capability. It's that good.
                Hi Mark,

                Thanks for the comments and I'm glad you enjoyed the VTT transfers. Your comments are appreciated.

                Dre
                **************************************************
                Every day is a good day to play analog.
                - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
                - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
                **************************************************
                Every day is a good day for live music.
                **************************************************

                Comment


                • #12
                  Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
                  I was lucky to get to play the vinyl transfer to tape at my place. I played it 3 times.
                  a few thoughts his vinyl rig must be very good while it had a tape sound to me in its powerful presentation it also was very analog in sound. It kept me wanting to play it.
                  while I love vinyl now tape is less stressing to play. So I’m the end in part convince gives me a more relaxing playback. Im a fidgety guy tape lets me wander lol.
                  his transfer seems to be his vinyl rig , this is cool I felt I was like at his place. A big thanks to dr J a very nice guy and kid of him to take the time to share works.
                  I look forward to any other tapes he may share. I asked him to share his system so I can put sound to vision.
                  thanks dre j
                  Hi Al,

                  Thanks for the comments. I'm happy you enjoyed the VTT transfer copy RS2-b for circulation.

                  Dre
                  **************************************************
                  Every day is a good day to play analog.
                  - 12" 33-1/3 RPM or 45 RPM vinyl
                  - 10.5" 15ips or 30ips tape
                  **************************************************
                  Every day is a good day for live music.
                  **************************************************

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    I’m beyond happy I have on vinyl a few of the tracks you made. I can hear your setup on the tape spooky lol. It has a tape weight or power but also the sound of your vinyl rig.
                    beet good quality and ty for the effort.
                    analog stuff.
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                    Dacs lampi various

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      you should be getting great audio, really good amps. turntables

                      spkrs all became available by this time.
                      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
                        you should be getting great audio, really good amps. turntables

                        spkrs all became available by this time.
                        JC I get your first sentence. Did SC kill the meaning of your second sentence since you lost me?
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                        -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                        -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
                        -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                        Comment

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