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What Are Your Favorite Classic Records Releases?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Metamatic View Post
    Easy.

    Led Zep 1, 2, Houses of the Holy, 4 and Physical Grafitti.
    I played my Classic 180g LZI on a really high end system, and it is amazing. What a gem.
    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Metamatic View Post
      Easy.

      Led Zep 1, 2, Houses of the Holy, 4 and Physical Grafitti.
      I don't have HOTH or PG, but I do have I thru 4 on the preferred 180g pressings
      Last edited by JCOConnell; 05-18-2016, 09:11 AM.
      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

      Comment


      • Johnny Vinyl
        Johnny Vinyl commented
        Editing a comment
        Mine is LZ II. I don't have a Classic reissue, but I do have an early Canadian Red label Atlantic pressing, which is very, very good.

      • JCOConnell
        JCOConnell commented
        Editing a comment
        I like LZII a lot too. I have the Classic, the mofi, the 2015 re, and a 1970s re US copy, all good.

      • JCOConnell
        JCOConnell commented
        Editing a comment
        Interesting note : the classic and the 2015 reissue are virtually identical sounding, more so than any other of the classics and the 2015s.

    • #18
      Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

      I don't have HOTH or PG, but I do have I thru 4 on the preferred 180g pressings

      Interesting note : the classic and the 2015 reissue are virtually identical sounding, more so than any other of the classics and the 2015s.
      What 2015 reissues are you talking about? The Jimmy Page vinyl re-issues?

      I have Led Zep 2 and 3 deluxe vinyl and the digital remasters sound OK, but the Classic reissues are in another universe they are that much better sounding. the companion discs are pretty good as never heard that material before.

      Comment


      • JCOConnell
        JCOConnell commented
        Editing a comment
        I should have said virtually identically sounding tonally, the other three have audible EQ differences

    • #19
      Classic's reissue of Aqualung is as good as that title has ever sounded. I have the original 33rpm reissue and the Clarity Vinyl 45rpm box. They used Ian Anderson's personal backup copy of the master tape for cutting the lacquer. It still needs more bass but it sounds better in all other aspects.
      Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof.
      https://www.edsstuff.org
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      *Modified/Customized Component

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      • JCOConnell
        JCOConnell commented
        Editing a comment
        Never heard that version, too bad its OOP. I like the mofi.

    • #20
      Originally posted by EdAInWestOC View Post
      Classic's reissue of Aqualung is as good as that title has ever sounded. I have the original 33rpm reissue and the Clarity Vinyl 45rpm box. They used Ian Anderson's personal backup copy of the master tape for cutting the lacquer. It still needs more bass but it sounds better in all other aspects.
      Have you heard the Steve Wilson remix? its quite good, and there's bass.

      Comment


      • EdAInWestOC
        EdAInWestOC commented
        Editing a comment
        I have the high res download of that (24/96 FLAC from HDTracks). Its pretty good but the Classic is cleaner and not as processed sounding (the midrange remains clear). Yes, the Wilson remix returns the tonal balance but it smears the midrange and, IMO, that is something that takes away from the album.

        On the Classic reissue the tape hiss is more audible but the rest is clearly there.

        For instance...

        On "Wind-Up", the piano and acoustic guitar on the new remix lacks body and resonance. You can clearly hear the notes on the Wilson reissue but they lack body/reality.

        IIRC, the guitar that Ian Anderson uses doesn't have a lot of body/resonance but what is there is present on the Classic reissue. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Wilson reissue sounds like its been flattened. I had the same reaction when I heard the first track from Led Zep Mothership.

        I was listening to the radio and the DJ made a big deal about how great this new remix was and how you could hear everything so well. It was "Over The Hills and Far Away" and I was struck by the sound immediately. The opening lead acoustic guitar sounded like an instrument made from cardboard. It was like listening to the sound through a cheap hand held portable radio vs a quality high-end setup.

        The Wilson remix is not as bad as Led Zep Mothership but it sounds like something has been lost.

        NOTE: I just listened and compared the 24/96 download of the Wilson reissue vs a 24/192 recording of my Classic 45RPM box set of Aqualung, so my memory would be refreshed.

    • #21
      The classic 33 of Jimi Hendrix : Axis Bold as Love (Mono) sounds pretty sweet thru my mono cart.
      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

      Comment


      • Rob
        Rob commented
        Editing a comment
        yes!

      • JCOConnell
        JCOConnell commented
        Editing a comment
        I recently bought the mono AYE (I forget the label) and its nowhere near as good as axis sonically.

    • #22
      Originally posted by EdAInWestOC View Post
      I have the high res download of that (24/96 FLAC from HDTracks). Its pretty good but the Classic is cleaner and not as processed sounding (the midrange remains clear). Yes, the Wilson remix returns the tonal balance but it smears the midrange and, IMO, that is something that takes away from the album.

      On the Classic reissue the tape hiss is more audible but the rest is clearly there.

      For instance...

      On "Wind-Up", the piano and acoustic guitar on the new remix lacks body and resonance. You can clearly hear the notes on the Wilson reissue but they lack body/reality.

      IIRC, the guitar that Ian Anderson uses doesn't have a lot of body/resonance but what is there is present on the Classic reissue. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Wilson reissue sounds like its been flattened. I had the same reaction when I heard the first track from Led Zep Mothership.

      I was listening to the radio and the DJ made a big deal about how great this new remix was and how you could hear everything so well. It was "Over The Hills and Far Away" and I was struck by the sound immediately. The opening lead acoustic guitar sounded like an instrument made from cardboard. It was like listening to the sound through a cheap hand held portable radio vs a quality high-end setup.

      The Wilson remix is not as bad as Led Zep Mothership but it sounds like something has been lost.

      NOTE: I just listened and compared the 24/96 download of the Wilson reissue vs a 24/192 recording of my Classic 45RPM box set of Aqualung, so my memory would be refreshed.

      Have you seen this comparo?

      http://thevinylpress.com/jethro-tull...nyl-shoot-out/

      Comment


      • EdAInWestOC
        EdAInWestOC commented
        Editing a comment
        I read it and wondered how the comparison was done? All of those pressings are different and pressed on different weight vinyl. This leads to a problem that I have with these so called "shoot outs".

        First of all I have to state I am a strong believer in VTA on the fly. I cannot understand why a vinylphile would agonize over so many adjustments and then leave the VTA/SRA, which is always relative to the thickness of the vinyl, out of consideration. I have been living with VTA on the fly for some years now and I have found that it can make a difference. I suppose that those who do not think this is relevant probably don't bother to adjust VTA to begin with. You know, since its not an issue.

        Obviously that last sentence is to make a point. Of course the VTA adjustment and the related SRA is relevant. That's what makes VTA on the fly important. It makes me wonder why people don't find it an issue. It also makes so many of these shootouts pointless.

        Unless the shootout includes an optimization of the SRA for best playback quality for each pressing, the shootout is not valid. What may be happening is the LP that most closely matches the playback hardware has the advantage. Each and every LP should have the VTA adjusted to maximize the performance of the playback. Once that is done you can tell which LP is the best or not.

        Not every LP will require a resetting of the VTA, but, unless you perform this step you are not eliminating the VTA/SRA related performance and you cannot tell whether the best LP is that way due to the pressing or due to the hardware setting.

        I have never read one of these shootouts where the VTA setting was taken into account. Until that is done I will read the information but take it with a grain of salt. What the author claims to be the best may only be that way on the author's particular setup.

    • #23
      Originally posted by Rob View Post
      I missed it. Bill, you actually own all these pressing!?!?! You are a freak!
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 phonostage; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/Lyra Atlas SL, Ortofon A95, Charisma Reference 2 cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • JCOConnell
        JCOConnell commented
        Editing a comment
        Naw, he just likes Jethro Tull.

    • #24
      As far as Aqualung goes, I haven't heard them all, but I have heard several stock us copies, the dcc, and the mofi. And the mofi blows them all away on clarity of and dynamics of the drums on the title track. Yes, the mofi has a slight bass boost, but I can live with that, but I cant live with the other dynamically "dead" pressings.
      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

      Comment


      • #25
        Originally posted by EdAInWestOC View Post
        I read it and wondered how the comparison was done? All of those pressings are different and pressed on different weight vinyl. This leads to a problem that I have with these so called "shoot outs".

        First of all I have to state I am a strong believer in VTA on the fly. I cannot understand why a vinylphile would agonize over so many adjustments and then leave the VTA/SRA, which is always relative to the thickness of the vinyl, out of consideration. I have been living with VTA on the fly for some years now and I have found that it can make a difference. I suppose that those who do not think this is relevant probably don't bother to adjust VTA to begin with. You know, since its not an issue.

        Obviously that last sentence is to make a point. Of course the VTA adjustment and the related SRA is relevant. That's what makes VTA on the fly important. It makes me wonder why people don't find it an issue. It also makes so many of these shootouts pointless.

        Unless the shootout includes an optimization of the SRA for best playback quality for each pressing, the shootout is not valid. What may be happening is the LP that most closely matches the playback hardware has the advantage. Each and every LP should have the VTA adjusted to maximize the performance of the playback. Once that is done you can tell which LP is the best or not.

        Not every LP will require a resetting of the VTA, but, unless you perform this step you are not eliminating the VTA/SRA related performance and you cannot tell whether the best LP is that way due to the pressing or due to the hardware setting.

        I have never read one of these shootouts where the VTA setting was taken into account. Until that is done I will read the information but take it with a grain of salt. What the author claims to be the best may only be that way on the author's particular setup.
        I know the author of that piece, you might have heard of him I know what his reference system is like, he's a serious vinyl record collector and IMHO well qualified to comment on their sound.

        Personally I don't think the difference between most remasters are that nuanced, altho' SRA is important it doesn't make or break an eval for me. I could compare two recordings on an unfamiliar system, remastered by different houses/engineers and spot differences straight away and come to similar conclusions. If the remasters are so close in SQ that we're talking about the difference of whether VTA was readjusted for each pressing then I would call that a draw.

        Comment


        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          Problem is it's not just the record thickness but the VTA the record was cut at. Especially in the early days before mastering engineers kind or sort of by default standardized the lathe's cutting angle. I've seen numbers from 17-22 degrees proferred for early stereo releases. So thickness could compensate for VTA too. In the end, you don't know where you are really and have spend some really serious time making sure the stylus is properly seated.

        • EdAInWestOC
          EdAInWestOC commented
          Editing a comment
          A few decades ago there was a tonearm named the Loci. It had VTA on the fly and that was somewhat unique for its day. The tonearm's creator published a document with suggested VTA settings for various LP makers. The difference between the various manufacturers is an interesting read. I have that document and I use it for guidance when I want to experiment with various VTA settings. The suggested settings are expressed in floating point numbers that are only relevant to the Loci settings but the numbers give you an idea of relative VTA.

          The document has a single page and the information is organized by Label/VTA with three columns across. I've copied it here for those who may be interested:

          A&M 6.5 Eurodisk 6.0 Olivia 3.0
          ABC 4.0 Everest 4.0 Olympic 5.0
          Acanta 7.5 Fermata 5.5 Opus 3.0
          Accent 5.0 Festivo 5.0 Orion 5.0
          America 5.5 Flying Fish 4.5 Ornx 4.5
          American Gramophone 4.5 Fontana 4.5 PA-USA 3.0
          Analogue Recordings 4.5 Fourth Stream 6.0 Pablo 5.0
          Angel 5.5 Franklin Mint 4.0 Pandora 4.5
          Apple 3.0 FSM 4.5 Panton 5.0
          Arabesque 6.0 Full Moon 5.5 Passport 4.5
          Archive 3.0 Genesis 3.5 PA USA 5.5
          Argo 4.0 GNP Crecendo 5.0 Pearl 6.0
          Arista 5.0 Grapevine 5.0 Peerless 4.5
          ARK 4.5 Green Linnet 5.0 Pelican 6.0
          Astree 8.0 Harmonia Mundi 2.5 Peters International 4.5
          Asylum 3.5 Harmony 5.5 Philips 5.0
          ATCO 4.0 Harvest 3.5 Philo 5.0
          Attic 5.0 Haydn Society 7.5 Polydor 5.0
          Audiogram 4.5 Heliodor 5.5 Poseidon 3.5
          AVI 4.5 HNH 5.0 Prestige 4.5
          BASF 5.0 Horzu 4.5 Privilege 3.0
          BIS 4.5 Hungaraton 4.0 Proprius 6.5
          Black Lion 6.0 INA 5.0 PVC 4.5
          Blue Note 5.0 In Concert 6.0 Qualiton 4.0
          Blue Thumb 3.0 Inner City 6.0 Quest (WB) 3.5
          Calliope 5.5 Intercord 4.0 Quintessance 6.0
          Canadian-American 4.5 Interplay 4.5 RCA 5.5
          Candide 4.0 I.R.S. 3.5 Reference Recordings 4.0
          Capitol 3.0 Island 3.0 Reprise (WB) 3.5
          Caprice 2.0 Ivory 5.0 Rounder 6.0
          Capricorn 5.5 Janus 4.0 Schwann 7.5
          Cara 5.5 Japo 3.0 Seraphim 5.5
          CBS 5.5 JEM 4.5 Shanachie 6.0
          Chandis 5.0 JRB 3.0 Sheffield 5.0
          Charisma 5.5 Jugaton 4.5 Sine Qua Non 4.5
          Chesky 4.5 Kebec 4.0 Sire 4.0
          Chrysalis (WB) 3.5 Kicking Mule 4.5 Sonet 5.0
          Circle 6.0 Klavier 2.5 Steeple Chase 4.5
          City Lights 6.5 L’oiseau-Lyre 4.5 Summit 6.5
          Classic 2.5 Le Chant Du Monde 8.0 Supraphon 5.0
          Coda 3.0 Little David 2.5 Sutra 2.5
          Colgems 3.5 London 6.0 Takoma 3.5
          Columbia 5.5 Lyrachord 6.0 TBS 4.5
          Concord 5.0 M&K 4.5 Telefunken 6.0
          Connoisseur 5.0 Mainstream 4.0 Temple 3.5
          Corona 2.5 Mark Levinson 7.0 Three Blind Mice 5.0
          Coronado 3.5 Matador 3.0 Titanic 3.0
          Cryonic 4.0 MBM 6.5 Transatlantic 3.5
          Crystal Clear 5.0 MCA 3.0 Trip 5.5
          Crystal 2.5 Melodia 5.5 Turnabout 3.0
          CTI 2.5 Mercury 4.5 Umbrella 6.0
          Da Camera Magna 4.0 MF Records 5.0 Unicorn 4.0
          Danacord 4.0 MGM 4.5 United Artists 4.0
          DCC 4.0 Milestone 4.0 Universal City (MCA) 3.0
          Decca 5.0 Minos 3.0 Vanguard 6.5
          Delerium 6.0 Mobile Fidelity 5.0 Varrick 6.0
          Delos 4.5 Monitor 5.5 Vertigo 4.0
          Deutsche Grammophone 3.0 MPS 5.5 Verve 5.0
          DJM 5.0 Muse 3.0 Virgin 4.0
          DRG 7.0 Musical Heritage Society 4.5 Vista 4.5
          Dunhill 4.0 Narada 5.5 Vox 3.0
          ECM (Germany) 4.5 Nautilus 6.0 Warner Brothers 3.5
          Elektra 3.5 Nimbus 4.0 Wergo 4.0
          EMI 6.0 Nippon 5.0 Windham Hill 3.0
          Enja 4.5 NKF 6.0 Wright and Perry 7.5
          Epic 5.5 Nonesuch 7.5 Xanadu 7.0
          Eterna 4.0 Novus 4.0
          Euphoria 4.0 Odyssey 5.5
          NOTE: The last two rows only have two columns. You can find the original document here: http://www.edsstuff.org/loci_vta.pdf

          The data suggests that the different labels may have mastered on lathes with different settings, used lacquer with small variations in thickness, pressed their product on different weight vinyl or used different/other's mastering facilities. The VTA settings are relevant to the time frame that the document was created and the correct VTA for the labels above probably has changed over time.

          The point of all of this is that the proper VTA for a LP is more than just the weight of the vinyl. There are variations across the board suggesting a wide range of VTA settings.

        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks Ed, great info! Why don't you start a new thread in the General Music forum and include this info in it? This matter deserves its own thread and more attention. Newbies or audiophiles who have returned to vinyl fold after a long gap of time may be unaware of this information. Then I'll make the thread a sticky.

          One wonders how the results would turn out today's smaller stylus footprint given that this was done years ago with probably with an elliptical or shibata stylus! Would there be a bigger gap between the lowest and highest and more discrimination in between?

          And yes I remember the Loci.
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