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Choking on Digital

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  • Choking on Digital

    I have lost count of how many different digital music file formats there are available to the digital consumer and I doubt the average consumer knows a damn thing about any of them. The average digital consumer probably knows more about their great aunt Matilda's third cousin twice removed than they do about about the files they listen to. And that is precisely why I think the ever continuing parade of "improved" digital formats will never catch on with the masses.

    Sometimes for grins I will ask non-audiophile people what type of digital music files they listen to and ask them if they know there are digital formats that have more resolution than CDs. They usually look at me like I'm talking about Big Foot or UFOs. The average non-audiophile who listens to digital music might know there are MP3 files and CDs, but I would bet your paycheck the average non-audiophile couldn't explain what is different about them or even knows there are various versions of MP3s.

    And it doesn't help matters any in the audiophile community when you have DCPs (Digital Couch Potatoes) who proclaim that you can't hear any difference between MP3s and hi-rez digital. Given all of that, how in the world is PONO and the new super whiz-bang MQA (which is pretty much vaporware now with regards to available software to download that anyone has ever heard of) ever going to catch on in the marketplace? How many new digital formats can you keep selling to DCPs or people who stream the never ending digital buffet of all you can stand digital music while they are reading a book or Facebook stalking their neighbors? Who besides audiophiles would pay more money for higher quality 'food' on the digital buffet line? No one because people who love buffets are attracted to the cheap price and the "all you can eat" promise and the quality of food they are stuffing themselves with is "good enough."

    Outside of the small niche of audiophiles who love digital, I don't see where hi-rez digital stands a chance of succeeding in the market place for the common man/woman.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

  • #2
    Wow MEP do you feel better now lol. Funny ask your ACP analog couch patato know anything about setting up a TT cartridge much less interconnects. We are lost in space as agrouo see him out planets that may have some kind of hi end audio life People. Even digital geeks do. It know about our hobby same for gaming and video too.
    But why does it bother you ? When I used to race cars for for real non RC there was no internet so we bought magazines and read them over and over. Hung out by garages while People installed the lateet Edele brock hi rise manifold. The times have changed for all of us. But if I bought a new hi I d TT I know plenty of places to get info.
    Mots the same for my RC stuff. I think the reason audio changes so fast is new people meaning makers trying to grab the gold so why by old technology when here is new
    even if it's not proven to be so called better. When Pomo came out I attacked it
    why it's simple I owned several DAPS a type of universal pino player. Why would anyone buy one hat locks you to one type of music file
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

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    • #3
      The common man/woman isn't interested in fidelity...only access to multiple files at the touch of a button. I'm doubtful that many of them even get through listening to an entire song.
      Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

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      • #4
        What got me thinking about this is the threads on Audio Shark about MQA. Another digital format that's DOA if for no other reason that they have no files to sell.
        Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

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        • #5
          Selling is in part the problem why would someone even is nuts want to buy our music and over and over. Even though we do in some ways. But a reissue or better format like dsd from tape for me or whatever is better for you people I see it. Honestly I love my tidal more each week.
          I have direct tv , Fios , XM radio and I still use tidal now. Why is easy. I just seeech and play even in my truck i use a unlimited data phone service to steam it to my truck or where ever
          even to my Bluetooth dap. Yes it's 25 a month but consider many forums have what's playing or spinning. I can mostly find those albums. If I really like them I'll buy it.
          analog stuff.
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
          sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
          new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
          thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
          thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
          kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
          phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
          mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
          Dacs lampi various

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm happy with PCM when I listen to digital...I really don't even know anything about the latest fad...mqa.
            Christian
            System Gear

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            • #7
              How many digital formats are there?
              Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

              Comment


              • Garth
                Garth commented
                Editing a comment
                If there is more than one digital format then there is one too many IMO only
                Last edited by Garth; 07-10-2016, 01:29 PM.

            • #8
              Originally posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post
              How many digital formats are there?
              WAV
              AIFF
              FLAC
              ALAC
              APE
              MP3
              AAC
              WMA
              MQA

              And for PCM non-lossy digital, we can start with 16/44.1, 24/48, 24/88, 24/96, 24/176, 24/192 and on and on. Then we have DSD with 64, 128, 256, 512, etc. sampling rates. And I'm sure I left out a bunch of others.
              Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by mep View Post

                WAV
                AIFF
                FLAC
                ALAC
                APE
                MP3
                AAC
                WMA
                MQA

                And for PCM non-lossy digital, we can start with 16/44.1, 24/48, 24/88, 24/96, 24/176, 24/192 and on and on. Then we have DSD with 64, 128, 256, 512, etc. sampling rates. And I'm sure I left out a bunch of others.
                Ha then a guy like me can upsample to ~ a dozen sampling rates, then 5 dsd filters, 6 pcm filters, and 3 mapping algorithms. And we thought dialing in a phone cartridge takes time...
                Speakers: Rockport Lyra
                Amps: Nagra HD Pre Amp & HD Amps
                Cables: Transparent Magnum Opus speaker and interconnects
                Power Transparent Opus Power Cords & Opus Isolators
                Digital dCS Vivaldi full stack w/ Transparent Reference XL Digital cables
                Phono: Grand Prix Monaco 2.0 TT, Spiral Groove Centroid, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement, Nagra Classic Phono & PSU
                Racks: Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 (x4)

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                • #10
                  Originally posted by jfrech View Post

                  Ha then a guy like me can upsample to ~ a dozen sampling rates, then 5 dsd filters, 6 pcm filters, and 3 mapping algorithms. And we thought dialing in a phone cartridge takes time...
                  And we wonder why the average Joe is clueless...

                  I should have said in my original post that people look at you like you told them you saw a UFO and Big Foot was on board.
                  Last edited by mep; 07-09-2016, 08:50 PM.
                  Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    You can put me down in the I don't care what it is because it's still digital camp! I still prefer redbook CD and a good transport over any computer based source I've heard. Same goes for the battle of players, yes there are differences but none do anything for me when I hear the same computer based digital signature sound.

                    david
                    Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
                    Distribution: NEODIO

                    Special Sales: van den Hul
                    Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

                    Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
                    http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
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                    • #12
                      The masses the ones that buy itunes and Amazon downloads and still enjoy their CD's just don't care about all of these formats. MQA just another poke in the park to sell audio gear and screw the people that purchase yet again another format of the same song that have on tape, vinyl, CD, Flac, DSD etc..etc..etc.. .And yes the average Joe and Sally is clueless. And I happened to ask my neighbor whose names are in fact Joe and Sally (35 & 39) both educated (doctors with money) what DSD, MQA, FLAC is, they had No clue but they knew what a CD and MP3 was.
                      Chris
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------
                      Kef 201/2, Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE, Manley Chinook, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV20x2L, ExaSound e32, Acoustic Zen cables. (Office): Vincent SP331 Mkll, Quicksilver Pre, Lumin D1, (Ken Lau Signiture Edition PSU), Bryston BCD-1, Vapor Audio Breeze, WooAudio W6se,Questyle Audio CMA800R LCD-3,HD800s, HD600, Mr Speaker Ether C Flow,

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                      • #13
                        I think I'm with david k on this. I only listen to digital on my PC (FLAC or WAV) and the kitchen CD setup, having removed it entirely from my main system. I have no need or interest in listening to supposed better formats.
                        Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

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                        • #14
                          You know we make fun of people who do not know the formats that come and go.
                          Yet in classical music which is the oldest still played music on a commercial scale. How many people could name the instruments in a orchestra if they were asked even if the players each stood held up each one one at a time. These have been around a long time french horn or english horn , Viola or violin, straight sax or clarinet .
                          conductor or a guy trying to kill a fly

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                          • JCOConnell
                            JCOConnell commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Hey, That would make for a great LP boxed set: Great Fly swatters of the 20th Century

                        • #15
                          Originally posted by cpp View Post
                          The masses the ones that buy itunes and Amazon downloads and still enjoy their CD's just don't care about all of these formats. MQA just another poke in the park to sell audio gear and screw the people that purchase yet again another format of the same song that have on tape, vinyl, CD, Flac, DSD etc..etc..etc.. .And yes the average Joe and Sally is clueless. And I happened to ask my neighbor whose names are in fact Joe and Sally (35 & 39) both educated (doctors with money) what DSD, MQA, FLAC is, they had No clue but they knew what a CD and MP3 was.
                          And that was exactly my point. Hi-rez digital for the masses was and is a huge marketing failure. Just give them plenty of digital and give it to them cheap and they are as happy as a hungry man with low food quality standards eating at Golden Corral or a cheap Chinese Buffet.
                          Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

                          Comment


                          • rbbert
                            rbbert commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Pono says they sell more 24/192 albums than all other formats combined (which may say more about their overall sales than about success for hi-res PCM). Supposedly, they also operate with a total of only 8 employees; this obviously lowers their fixed costs of business, and they do routinely underprice their competitors, but it also suggests that for whatever reason the music labels are definitely charging a premium to retailers for the hi-res albums.
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