Drawing a line in the sand!

[Johnny Vinyl]

In progressive rock the two most often-cited cases whereby people have taken a side when bands change lineups are Pink Floyd and Genesis. The departures of Syd Barrett from Pink Floyd and Peter Gabriel from Genesis are hotly debated and discussed and many think those two bands are but shadows of their former selves. I personally don't subscribe to that notion as both created great albums prior to and also post departure. To a lesser degree the later departures of Roger Waters from Pink Floyd and Roger Hodgson from Supertramp had an impact, but by that point both bands were already past their prime IMO. However, had both remained, who knows what they would/could have brought to the table.

Have you drawn a line in the sand with regards to the above, and what other examples of band line-up changes do you feel impacted their output either positively or negatively.

[mep]

I thought we had this discussion about Pink Floyd before. I don't know anyone who cares about Syd Barrett. He left Pink Floyd in the Stone Age and nobody who was born in the last 50 years probably knows who he is or that Shine On You Crazy Diamond was written about him. Roger Waters leaving Pink Floyd took all of their (Pink Floyd's) angst/depression and he walked out the door with it.

The plane crash that killed key members of Lynyrd Skynyrd also killed the rest of the band. The surviving members just didn't realize it. CCR without John Fogerty is a joke. John Fogerty without the rest of the CCR band is still quite respectable.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I thought we had this discussion about Pink Floyd before. I don't know anyone who cares about Syd Barrett. He left Pink Floyd in the Stone Age and nobody who was born in the last 50 years probably knows who he is or that Shine On You Crazy Diamond was written about him. Roger Waters leaving Pink Floyd took all of their (Pink Floyd's) angst/depression and he walked out the door with it.

The plane crash that killed key members of Lynyrd Skynyrd also killed the rest of the band. The surviving members just didn't realize it. CCR without John Fogerty is a joke. John Fogerty without the rest of the CCR band is still quite respectable.

While I usually get a chuckle from your posts and contributions, I find this reply rather dismissive and it seems obvious to me that you haven't spent much time on more music-dedicated fora. If you had then you'd quickly realize many PF fans (regardless of age) are quite strongly divided.

[MylesBAstor]

I'd say that the later Fleetwood Mac was a lot better than its original incarnation with Peter Green. But like PF, I have friends who will argue that it was the end of Fleetwood Mac when Green split. Is putting a group of music lovers in a room and expecting them to agree any different than audiophiles?

[mep]

Sorry Johnny. No, I don't hang out on any PF forums or any other band worshiping forums for that matter. Pink Floyd was founded in 1965 and Syd was gone by April of 1968. I was only slightly off when I said nobody who was born in the last 50 years probably even knows who Syd was. It's been 48 years since he left Pink Floyd and he was only on their first two LPs. I had no idea that people were divided on the merit and worth of Pink Floyd since Syd left the band. Syd left in 1968 and Roger Waters left in 1985. You tell me who had more of an influence on Pink Floyd. I'm voting for Waters and I guess that is why I was dismissive with regards to Pink Floyd falling apart after Syd left the band.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'd say that the later Fleetwood Mac was a lot better than its original incarnation with Peter Green. But like PF, I have friends who will argue that it was the end of Fleetwood Mac when Green split. Is putting a group of music lovers in a room and expecting them to agree any different than audiophiles?

No difference whatsoever to be sure. With regard to Fleetwood Mac I'd go so far as to say I liked them most when Bob Welch was involved.

[MylesBAstor]

No difference whatsoever to be sure. With regard to Fleetwood Mac I'd go so far as to say I liked them most when Bob Welch was involved.

As good as Fleetwood Mac is on record, they are amazing in concert. No stereo system will ever recreate Mick Fleetwood's drums!

Personally can't get enough of Stevie Nicks with Fleetwood Mac or her solo efforts.

[mep]

Johnny-I agree. We can't get audiophiles to agree on anything except that we don't agree and it's no different with tastes in music. Some people claim to hate the Beatles so go figure.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Sorry Johnny. No, I don't hang out on any PF forums or any other band worshiping forums for that matter. Pink Floyd was founded in 1965 and Syd was gone by April of 1968. I was only slightly off when I said nobody who was born in the last 50 years probably even knows who Syd was. It's been 48 years since he left Pink Floyd and he was only on their first two LPs. I had no idea that people were divided on the merit and worth of Pink Floyd since Syd left the band. Syd left in 1968 and Roger Waters left in 1985. You tell me who had more of an influence on Pink Floyd. I'm voting for Waters and I guess that is why I was dismissive with regards to Pink Floyd falling apart after Syd left the band.

No question that RW had much more of an influence IMO and I'm also not a Syd Barrett fanboy. I brought up the thread as I find this type of music discussion interesting. It brings out all kinds of logic and reasoning and I think, as a music fan, there is something to be learned from it all.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Johnny-I agree. We can't get audiophiles to agree on anything except that we don't agree and it's no different with tastes in music. Some people claim to hate the Beatles so go figure.

Say it ain't so...pleeeeeeeaaaase!

[MylesBAstor]

Another group that went though a lot of iterations was Yes. Personally, they weren't the same after Rick Wakeman left the group. It would be like ELP without Keith Emerson.

[mep]

Say it ain't so...pleeeeeeeaaaase!

Based on what you are telling about Syd Barrett, there just might be a Beatles forum somewhere that people are discussing how the Beatles were never the same once Pete Best was given a Beatle boot up his butt.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Or how Ian Stewart was treated as a founding member of the Stones by Andrew Loog Oldham.

[MylesBAstor]

Based on what you are telling about Syd Barrett, there just might be a Beatles forum somewhere that people are discussing how the Beatles were never the same once Pete Best was given a Beatle boot up his butt.

Aren't they the same people who say Paul McCartney was overrated?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Only the John Lennon fans say that.....:P

[Ki Choi]

As good as Fleetwood Mac is on record, they are amazing in concert. No stereo system will ever recreate Mick Fleetwood's drums!

Personally can't get enough of Stevie Nicks with Fleetwood Mac or her solo efforts.

One of my earliest audiophile torture moments was when I visited an audio store in Raleigh Durham area in the 70's when I had no money but good ears. The store was playing Rumors on a new then Technics direct drive turntable with unknown amplification driving a pair of Maggies. I was blown away by the music and overtaken by the lust for the gear and voice of Stevie Nicks.

About ten years ago, I ran into Mick Fleetwood in the Charlotte airport. He was a strange person but interesting and nice.

I also have the Buckingham Nicks LP that took a long time to get a sealed copy.

[Steve Lefkowicz]

The odd part about Pink Floyd is that if Syd Barret hadn't left, their best albums would never have been made, I can't imagine Barret being involved in Meddle, DSOTM or Wish You Were Here.