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  • #16
    Originally posted by mep View Post

    Leaving tape aside for the here and now, I'm more interested in a sound comparison of the Mono Box set to the EMI Parlaphone stereo LPs than I am of a mono vs. mono comparison. If you have an early stereo copy of Beatles for Sale, play Every Little Thing and then play the mono version and tell which is better.

    Back to tapes-Do you have EMI Parlaphone dubs or do you have Capitol dubs? I have heard numerous Beatle tapes at shows that never impressed me and I heard a Capitol tape in my room. The Capitol tape stunk my room out. I had to call an exterminator to get the smell out and an exorcist to get rid of the tape. I would love to hear a real, no BS dub of an EMI Parlaphone master tape in my room (or at least a third cousin twice removed) as it should be something special. Barring that scenario, the closest we can come to the truth is hearing early LPs that were made from fresh master tapes straight from the vaults.
    don't think I have an early original stereo pressing of any Beatles (originally mono) album.

    don't know the provenance of the (5) Beatles master dubs I have; and they are the later albums. OTOH the master dubs I do have are significantly superior to any of my vinyl pressings....which is saying something.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post

      Yes! But you have to know what the truth is before you can claim it as such. Your truth with regard to the comparison is but a subjective opinion.

      I'm a big Beatles fan, but not to the extent you and others perhaps are. As such, I'm not inclined to seek out or declare if mono or stereo is my truth. Listening sessions with both fully engage me equally and that's fine for me. The BC13 and Mono boxsets are probably the best Beatles pressings I will ever own and I would like to enjoy them both.
      All quite true Johnny. It certainly is my opinion of what the truth is in my system. I'm not planning on kicking my Mono collection to the curb. Hell, after hearing them with a mono cartridge I just might change my tune-I'm keeping an open mind and open ears.
      SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mike Lavigne View Post

        don't think I have an early original stereo pressing of any Beatles (originally mono) album.

        don't know the provenance of the (5) Beatles master dubs I have; and they are the later albums. OTOH the master dubs I do have are significantly superior to any of my vinyl pressings....which is saying something.
        So which pressings of the later Beatles LPs do you have that you are comparing to the sound of the tapes?
        SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mep View Post

          So which pressings of the later Beatles LPs do you have that you are comparing to the sound of the tapes?
          I will describe 2 pressings that I can do from memory.

          one is the UHQR MoFi of Sgt. Peppers, which is easily better than the box set Mono and any other stereo pressing I have ever heard....but I've not heard them all.

          my 15ips 1/4" dub of whatever source humbles the UHQR. 'Day In The Life' on the tape is mind-blowingly better. much superior flow and absence of any sense of a reproduction chain. all the little hints at sounds on the UHQR are startlingly real and fully expressed on the tape. is it even the same recording? debatable. again; I'm at work doing this from memory. and no doubt there are better tapes out there.

          then there is my original stereo 'Apple' pressing of 'Abbey Road'; with the offset apple logo,....and all the little 'tells' like the little 'p' on the trademark. 'an E.M.I. recording' text on 2 lines, the '33 1/3rd' moved to the left side. I don't remember the matrix numbers but this is the real deal 1st pressing and I've compared it to my Japanese 'Pro Use' and 5 other early pressings I accumulated over a period of time looking for the 'Holy Grail' Abbey Road pressing. and it's much better than any other those others.

          Abbey Road might be my personal all time most favorite piece of music. it came out the year I graduated from High School and I just love it. so I spent maybe 18 months digging and digging for the best possible pressing. that was 3-4 years ago now so I don't recall everything about it.

          the tape is not quite as much better than this 1st Pressing of Abbey Road as the Sgt. Peppers tape is, but it's a whole different league than my Lp. again; likely there are better tapes out there.

          but in both cases the question is; will anyone ever hear a better tape than what I have who is not in the middle of doing a licensed commercial mastering?

          how does one verify the provenance of a Beatles grey market master dub? the more real it might be, the less likely to be told about it.

          and my point was not that my Beatles tapes are the top of that heap, only that they were much better than any pressing.

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          • MylesBAstor
            MylesBAstor commented
            Editing a comment
            Not sure (and don't need to know ) where you got your tape copy of A Day in the Life but a couple of years ago Rich Brown had a copy he found in Europe and brought it to Axpona. It was as you said to die for through the Doshi electronics and Sasha V.1 speakers.

        • #20
          Originally posted by Mike Lavigne View Post

          I will describe 2 pressings that I can do from memory.

          one is the UHQR MoFi of Sgt. Peppers, which is easily better than the box set Mono and any other stereo pressing I have ever heard....but I've not heard them all.

          my 15ips 1/4" dub of whatever source humbles the UHQR. 'Day In The Life' on the tape is mind-blowingly better. much superior flow and absence of any sense of a reproduction chain. all the little hints at sounds on the UHQR are startlingly real and fully expressed on the tape. is it even the same recording? debatable. again; I'm at work doing this from memory. and no doubt there are better tapes out there.

          then there is my original stereo 'Apple' pressing of 'Abbey Road'; with the offset apple logo,....and all the little 'tells' like the little 'p' on the trademark. 'an E.M.I. recording' text on 2 lines, the '33 1/3rd' moved to the left side. I don't remember the matrix numbers but this is the real deal 1st pressing and I've compared it to my Japanese 'Pro Use' and 5 other early pressings I accumulated over a period of time looking for the 'Holy Grail' Abbey Road pressing. and it's much better than any other those others.

          Abbey Road might be my personal all time most favorite piece of music. it came out the year I graduated from High School and I just love it. so I spent maybe 18 months digging and digging for the best possible pressing. that was 3-4 years ago now so I don't recall everything about it.

          the tape is not quite as much better than this 1st Pressing of Abbey Road as the Sgt. Peppers tape is, but it's a whole different league than my Lp. again; likely there are better tapes out there.

          but in both cases the question is; will anyone ever hear a better tape than what I have who is not in the middle of doing a licensed commercial mastering?

          how does one verify the provenance of a Beatles grey market master dub? the more real it might be, the less likely to be told about it.
          It's impossible to verify Mike. One thing we know for sure, the real master tapes have never left EMI's Abbey Road Studios. Any tape that left the building for pressing in other countries was obviously a copy that was probably at least two generations from the master. So now if somebody claims to have copies of the Beatles master tapes, it would probably be a tale of intrigue of how they came into them. Someone duped off a copy of the copy that was sent to a pressing plant in another country and their friend made a copy and now he is selling copies from his copy kind of story. Or maybe there was a rogue employee at Abbey Road who had access to the tape vault and he snuck the tapes out at night in his underbritches and went home and copied them on a SOTA tape deck and has been quietly selling copies made from his copy of the masters. Who the hell knows where they really came from? And none of that matters if you have copies that sound outstanding on your system.
          SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

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          • #21
            Originally posted by mep View Post

            It's impossible to verify Mike. One thing we know for sure, the real master tapes have never left EMI's Abbey Road Studios. Any tape that left the building for pressing in other countries was obviously a copy that was probably at least two generations from the master. So now if somebody claims to have copies of the Beatles master tapes, it would probably be a tale of intrigue of how they came into them. Someone duped off a copy of the copy that was sent to a pressing plant in another country and their friend made a copy and now he is selling copies from his copy kind of story. Or maybe there was a rogue employee at Abbey Road who had access to the tape vault and he snuck the tapes out at night in his underbritches and went home and copied them on a SOTA tape deck and has been quietly selling copies made from his copy of the masters. Who the hell knows where they really came from? And none of that matters if you have copies that sound outstanding on your system.
            the only thing that matters about Beatles grey market master dubs is whether they are enough better than your best pressings to be worth the investment. in my case that is exactly what I did. I bought them based on listening and comparing. I bought the ones that took things clearly to another level.

            first, of course, I satisfied myself that I had very good pressings to begin with.

            beyond that it's a fools errand......

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            • #22
              Originally posted by mep View Post

              It's impossible to verify Mike. One thing we know for sure, the real master tapes have never left EMI's Abbey Road Studios. Any tape that left the building for pressing in other countries was obviously a copy that was probably at least two generations from the master. So now if somebody claims to have copies of the Beatles master tapes, it would probably be a tale of intrigue of how they came into them. Someone duped off a copy of the copy that was sent to a pressing plant in another country and their friend made a copy and now he is selling copies from his copy kind of story. Or maybe there was a rogue employee at Abbey Road who had access to the tape vault and he snuck the tapes out at night in his underbritches and went home and copied them on a SOTA tape deck and has been quietly selling copies made from his copy of the masters. Who the hell knows where they really came from? And none of that matters if you have copies that sound outstanding on your system.
              I seriously doubt that the original Beatles Analog master tapes are not kept under lock and key. Nobody can just borrow them overnight.
              Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Teac A3300SX R2R, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, DIY Silver Interconnects

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              • MylesBAstor
                MylesBAstor commented
                Editing a comment
                Nor Pink Floyd. I can't speak of what happened recently but reportedly DSOTM had only been taken out four times. They just make a ton load of safeties to use.

            • #23
              Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

              I seriously doubt that the original Beatles Analog master tapes are not kept under lock and key. Nobody can just borrow them overnight.
              I said they are closely guarded and was making a joke about someone who worked there 'borrowing' them. I hope you understood that.
              SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs.

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              • #24
                MusicDirect has it on-sale right now for $250.
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                • #25
                  I have been listening to this box again as of late. I feel they play quieter with more meat on the bone using a mono cart. I also have the 1982 Red Wax Japanese mono's...Can't say which one's I like better.. I haven't had the chance to play each title back to back for a comparison.
                  Christian
                  System Gear

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                  • #26
                    Originally posted by mep View Post

                    It's impossible to verify Mike. One thing we know for sure, the real master tapes have never left EMI's Abbey Road Studios. Any tape that left the building for pressing in other countries was obviously a copy that was probably at least two generations from the master. So now if somebody claims to have copies of the Beatles master tapes, it would probably be a tale of intrigue of how they came into them. Someone duped off a copy of the copy that was sent to a pressing plant in another country and their friend made a copy and now he is selling copies from his copy kind of story. Or maybe there was a rogue employee at Abbey Road who had access to the tape vault and he snuck the tapes out at night in his underbritches and went home and copied them on a SOTA tape deck and has been quietly selling copies made from his copy of the masters. Who the hell knows where they really came from? And none of that matters if you have copies that sound outstanding on your system.
                    The made a ton load of safeties from the Beatles masters and send them --or used to -- for pressing LPs. I'm sure some of these tapes that pop up in Europe were sent for pressing LPs. Some of these safeties are even now turning up in Russia and one source told me they were quite good copies. But caveat emptor since there's a lot of schlock out there on ebay too.
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
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                    • #27
                      Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                      The made a ton load of safeties from the Beatles masters and send them --or used to -- for pressing LPs. I'm sure some of these tapes that pop up in Europe were sent for pressing LPs. Some of these safeties are even now turning up in Russia and one source told me they were quite good copies. But caveat emptor since there's a lot of schlock out there on ebay too.
                      I have 5 of them, all show the same provenance, a source in West Germany. They are all safety masters (Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, White Album, Abbey Road). All were made in the late '80's. It looks like all of them are the actual safety masters, not dubs of them. My understanding is they were for producing records in eastern Europe. I bought them as part of a large collection. The seller bought them from a recording engineer who I believe was working in that area at the time. You can see that the tapes were recorded on SM911 tape (2 reels per album, except for the White Album which has four tapes). They are all stereo, with test tones at the front of each side A. Looks like a Studer A80 was used to make the copy. The recordings are all uniformly quite superb sounding. I have always liked the mono version of the Beatles albums compared to the stereo, since the stereo versions tend to be extreme left - right and the boys had to have very long arms to be singing in one channel while playing their guitars in the other channel. However, the tape (15ips 2 track 1/4" tape) has a dimensionality that the monos (even with my Miyajima Zero mono cartridge ) don't match.

                      For these commercial records, they involved 5 steps from production master to record (lacquer, father, mother, stamper, record). The safety masters would be two steps from British running master (West German copy, safety master), or even possibly one step from a running master made in England and sent to West Germany to the safety master.

                      Larry
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                      • #28
                        Bet those tapes sound fantastic Larry.
                        lucky you!

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                        • #29
                          The most likely source in the North American hemisphere Beatles' safety (not master) dubs came from is: a collector in Mexico whom, salvaged them from when the Capitol pressing plant there closed in 1980. They would be clones of the EMI versions and not have circulated through Capitol's U.S. "post production" with all the echo, etc.

                          Though, a very good domestic outlet for Beatle mono -albeit, Capitol submaster- tapes is...the ones, actually, Capitol had leased to the animator King Features to include in the '60s cartoon series soundtracks. The auction site Heritage occasionally lists them and they're on 1/4" pancakes of Scotch 142.

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