Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New/Old House- Sub panel/Isolation Transformer/Dedicated Lines

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I went through the dedicated circuit thing a while back.

    Here is a link to a PDF file with some advices from Caelin Gabriel.

    I did 5 20A circuits, 10 awg, in phase, all in equal wire length.

    Fwiw Albert's PorterPorts are a reasonable cost option vs others.

    A whole house surge protector is inexpensive insurance. Caelin recommended me the Leviton 51120-1.

    And good luck with those neighborhood approvals !
    Spkr: Wilson Alexias series 2; Amps: Lamm M1.2Ref; Linestage and phono: ARC Ref 10 and ARC Ref 10 Phono; TT: GPA Monaco 2.0; Arms: Kuzma 4Point, Tri-planar Mk. VII U2-SE; Cartridges: Allnic Arrow/Puritas, Benz LP S, Lyra Etna, Transfiguration Phoenix, Denon DL-A100,DL103R; Cables: Shunyata Σ / Σ NR PC/SC/IC; Pwr Cond: Shunyata Triton III, Typhons(3); Isolation: SRA Scuttle3 rack, SRA Ohio Class amp stands, ; Acoustics: Stillpoints Apertures; Audio cat: Finzi

    Comment


    • #17
      This is awesome news Bill! . I'm looking forward to reading about your progress and hope it'll be smooth sailing.
      Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

      Comment


      • #18
        Bill, was there ever a thought to Solar Panels and battery storage?.

        Does anyone know the pros and cons to battery power for a stereo?.

        Up here in Canada it's around a $20K investment.

        Comment


        • #19
          http://www.msbtechnology.com/about-msb/support/
          the above link is a good start,
          a whole house surge protector is a very good idea . well worth the few hundred . in my house down south I have one , now if you plan on a generator don't put you audio panel on it .
          bill all the best on your new home .
          I have tried so many power variants I lost count .
          if your not planning on the audio outlets now buy hospital grade isolated outlets . they have a very high tension strength over 15 pounds . and if you go isolated ground they are ready for it . if not a ground tail from green screw to the box makes them typical . iso outlets remove the many ground paths if your power is in metal raceways . separate ground wire is a must to have if you can .
          in my room I used an a 10 k isolation transformer 208 single phase in and 125 single phase out .
          in my room only my entire audio system including fios is ground isolated . not attached ground to anything but my room distribution panel. all grounds go back to one point in panel . the isolation transformer is grounded to house system not audio panel .
          its not nec code compliant but sounds best to my brain . while hum maybe what some look to remove and mine is dead silent noise is not all we need to look for . listen beyond hum you would be surprised how much your system varies .
          good luck and enjoy the process a man cave is man thing , but do a couch not a single chair lol . I never got the captain kirk chair thing maybe its just me . hope this helps and I am sure others here can help much more .
          one last thought I know square d is copper and there are others too but there home line is still plug in , buy a bolt down panel your electrician will know what this means . also oversize breakers meaning 30 or 40 amp for each circuit . a larger breaker trip means more contact area and more contact pressure . not nec code compliant , install after insp if you go that route . good luck
          Last edited by Alrainbow; 03-12-2017, 10:23 AM. Reason: my spelling sucks and my grammer too .

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cousinbilly View Post
            Bill, was there ever a thought to Solar Panels and battery storage?.

            Does anyone know the pros and cons to battery power for a stereo?.

            Up here in Canada it's around a $20K investment.
            I can only think of one issue on battery power they use a inverter to create your ac voltage . while some power regens do this its a true sign wave or closer than a simple square wave that creates noise above the root voltage. harmonics are not cool for audio , but its also what you hear.

            Comment


            • #21
              Thanks for these additional thoughts, everyone- just what I was after.
              tima Yep, will use hospital grade and point taken on whole house surge- I was thinking of one for the house, and another- possibly a ZeroSurge panel for the subpanelled system;
              Cousinbilly- can't do solar on the main house due to historical code, except perhaps in the back where it is not visible to the street, but the outbuilding is possible- a point to ask the architect when I get to that stage; dunno what the state of the art is these days on storage/conversion-this seems to be a fast moving area.
              Alrainbow - one of the questions I have is how a naked isolation transformer, stuffed into a NEMA box, gets wired into the sub panel to be code compliant- I gather than parallel wiring of the windings maximizes the capacity of the transformer.
              I hear you on separating the ground between the subpanel and main system, not sure I will do this in the house, but if I have entirely separate service path for the eventual outbuilding, dedicated just to hi-fi, I'll be able to minimize the amount of other stuff on that line- that's where I would also try to use the Equi=Tech, for balanced power. I really do want to keep w/in code in the house; the outbuilding can theoretically be 'spec'd' more like a studio for electrical purposes, and I can probably do stuff w/in code that maximizes SQ of electrics in that separate building.

              Comment


              • #22
                Why a naked ISO
                are you saying it's just the core no encloser ?
                Most any transformer has its own case with line and load or primary secondary in one or two enclosed areas. No need for a cabinet
                also nec code does nkt permit an electric panel in a closet unless it has a sign and is only for it. Of course I she done many and what they do later is nkt my business as long as my permit is signed off. Heck I she oit panels in kitchen cabinets and even drawers meaning they had to remove all draws to open the panel cover lol. Nyc space is always a premium

                Comment


                • #23
                  Not sure of your local codes but putting an ISO Ina box is fine in nec code
                  I would use romex for your room it's non metallic so ground is only wire inside keeping ground paths to a min using it. Did you read the msb link it's very good
                  ask me anything if I can help you. Keep in mind I am in no way claiming to know anything in audio
                  but I am a lisc electric amd engineer for what that can help
                  lol. If I may ask when you build your man cave will it have its own meter and service panel
                  not part of the main house. ?
                  Here in NYC you could not have that unless its two family and you use the whole place.
                  Now if commercial you could do what you want.
                  Enjoy your new home amd enjoy the spirits of your works as they go. I for one always lacked spirit for me but proud of work I do for others.
                  goinding paths should always be one like a ground buss on a service. So even if you use 4 circuits
                  place all grounds on one ground bar in panel and most important pit all grounds together at the outlets
                  so if you have a four gang box with 4 romex cables
                  put all four grounds together and pig tail oit from the
                  like star point grounding does. Use a small ISO ground buss if need be or big nuts. Or a multi tap burndy. In this way the ground is always at one potentional from start to finish. Use a deep 2 inch or more box in the wall to have room for this.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Alrainbow
                    -the only reason I was considering a naked transformer was that I didn't want to pay for all the bells and whistles of a finished piece of "audiophile" equipment, but I would want to encase it per code. I could set up the closet to be equipment only- the panel and my smaller 1/2 hp air compressor. Or I could install in one of the attics, but it gets crazy hot here, and I was not going to air condition the attic space (though I suppose I could).
                    For the separate outbuilding, I should be able to get separate service. Typically, guest houses are permitted which can be long-term rentals with separate meters. And, in my brief discussions with electrical inspectors here, they implied that it would not be a problem, but obviously, once the real work is starting, and I apply for a permit, the answer may be different.
                    I know that in NY it was hard to get additional residential service. I tried to do so when we had a house upriver, not far from Nyack. I had a separate outbuilding there (not for stereo, but for cars) and lot's of power eating stuff, including pool, hot tub, etc. I originally wanted to heat the driveway, and the power company was not willing to provide an additional 100 or 200 amp service line even though it was a fairly large (1.3 acre?) property.
                    What in the msb link were you pointing me to, Al?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It's about power distrabution in general for audio
                      just some points to consider
                      reg the ISO I did not know they make them with no case all I ever install is Ina case except for 30 MBA and up but they come with a case around it. As for attics in hot climates I have that down south. I don't even store electronics there. I have three gable fans and gagle vents along the ridge.
                      There is a movie called fools rush in. There is a quote that fits this. White people melt down here. Lol.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        My setup is as follows.
                        A 208 volt to 120 volt dual winding both primary and secondary winnings.
                        10k rating
                        this feeds a panel that feeds a ps audio P10 for front end
                        CPU server , dacs and headphone Amps.
                        Speakers.
                        Each tower has its own 2000 watt wider amp and a single Aragon 8008 BB using only one channel to keep
                        speaker wires very short.
                        So all all four Amps each have there own circuit from panel. I have tried this setup in many configs too.
                        The bass towers were tried directly from source panel before ISO transformer as well. No loss of impact and virtually no hum I can hear
                        mid tower Amps had some low level noise only if ones ear was up to towers with volume up. This too went away with ISO and grounding.
                        I also use my msb in ground lift mode as a preamp or dac
                        this also is a good feature to have. As my lampi dac leaks voltage to ground enough to give me a shock if I touch it and my msb lol. ISO transformers for me rule.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
                          My setup is as follows.
                          A 208 volt to 120 volt dual winding both primary and secondary winnings.
                          10k rating
                          this feeds a panel that feeds a ps audio P10 for front end
                          CPU server , dacs and headphone Amps.
                          Speakers.
                          Each tower has its own 2000 watt wider amp and a single Aragon 8008 BB using only one channel to keep
                          speaker wires very short.
                          So all all four Amps each have there own circuit from panel. I have tried this setup in many configs too.
                          The bass towers were tried directly from source panel before ISO transformer as well. No loss of impact and virtually no hum I can hear
                          mid tower Amps had some low level noise only if ones ear was up to towers with volume up. This too went away with ISO and grounding.
                          I also use my msb in ground lift mode as a preamp or dac
                          this also is a good feature to have. As my lampi dac leaks voltage to ground enough to give me a shock if I touch it and my msb lol. ISO transformers for me rule.
                          Helpful, thanks, Al. I will update as I learn more. http://www.plitron.com makes transformers that are used in other brands but sells direct as well.
                          Plitron Manufacturing Inc, an ISO 9001:2008 company, was established in 1983. Plitron specializes in research, design, development and manufacturing of toroidal transformers and toroidal based products.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bill Hart View Post

                            Helpful, thanks, Al. I will update as I learn more . . .
                            Plitron does make very good transformers. In particular take a look at their "low noise power transformers for solid state", which of course can be used for both tube and solid state equipment, assuming that they can handle the current load. These transformers use Plitron's "Low Noise Technology" which is extremely effective in filtering out unwanted powerline noise. It's the same technology used in Torus power conditioners, which have gotten quite good reviews.
                            http://www.toruspower.com/
                            ---Gary
                            https://www.plitron.com/news/low-noise-toroidal-technology/





                            Analog: Scheu + Immedia RPM tonearm + Koetsu Black + Pass Xono or Threshold FET 10pe
                            Amps: First Watt F7, HK Citation II
                            Pre-Amps: CJ Premier 14, Threshold FET 10e, DIY 417a with output transformer
                            Speakers: Horning Eufrodite, Reference 3A mm de capo
                            Tuners: Sansui TU9900, McIntosh MR78
                            Digital: i7 Server (Roon) + SSD, Sonore urendu + Mutec MC3+ USB + Berkeley Alpha Dac, TEAC VRDS-T1 (modfied with G+D clock and driver)
                            Power: Audience AR12, Torus Tot, DIY filters

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              We are still deep in the throes of unpacking-- the system is nowhere near set up yet, but I thought I'd share a glimpse of one of the rooms on the main floor looking through to the entry hall and beyond. You can get a sense of the level of craftsmanship of this house and the quality of the restoration. It feels a little less fussy with our stuff in it, though there is still much to do. As an interesting aside, the hallway chandelier was a gift from Mark Andes (Spirit) to the woman who restored the house. Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0398.JPG Views:	1 Size:	972.1 KB ID:	50007

                              Comment


                              • Johnny Vinyl
                                Johnny Vinyl commented
                                Editing a comment
                                Love it! This reminds me so much of my Grandfather's house in The Netherlands. All of the woodwork, wood floors, high ceilings. Just gorgeous. I can still smell it all!

                            • #30
                              Wow so cool
                              to see the transpomes all wood and not painted. My home down south has them on doors and windows. Nice if you have a whole house fan
                              good luck and enjoy your new home

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X