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  • Dedicated Circuit In Wall Cable

    I am in the planning stage for installing dedicated home run electrical wiring for my components. Cardas used to offer a 10 AWG 3 unshielded in wall product @ approx $17. per foot but it is listed as no longer available by their dealer Cableco. JPS Labs also offers an in wall product with 2 10ga power leads + one 12ga ground lead @$30. a foot retail. Beldon has their 83803 12 AWG 3 with a both a foil & a braided shield @ approx $12. per foot.

    Are there any other cable products out there worth considering over standard wiring that you are aware of ? Thanks for any good input in advance.

    http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/83803.pdf

    http://www.jpslabs.com/PDF/pacin1.pdf
    Last edited by Spla'nin; 09-26-2017, 05:00 PM. Reason: Additional info

  • #2
    Look at the Analysis Plus Power Oval 10, nice stuff but $33 a foot.
    I've used it on many installations over the years, important point is it's UL C2 Rated for inwall use up to 150v.
    Just in case you were to pull a permit the UL rating is important.

    https://www.analysis-plus.com/produc...oval-10-cable/

    Comment


  • #3
    I've thought about this...but the price per foot drove me to use normal home depot copper...I know I know..then I spent mega bucks on power cords from the wall to equipment. Curious if this helps you out sound wise...
    Speakers: Rockport Altair 2
    Amps: Nagra HD Pre Amp & HD Amps
    Cables: Transparent Magnum Opus speaker and interconnects
    Power Transparent Opus Power Cords & Opus Isolators
    Digital dCS Vivaldi full stack w/ Transparent Reference XL Digital cables
    Phono: Grand Prix Monaco 2.0 TT, Spiral Groove Centroid, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement, Nagra Classic Phono & PSU
    Racks: Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 (x4)

    Comment


    • Spla'nin
      Spla'nin commented
      Editing a comment
      I know we all have different electrical supply & delivery environments due to actual location of our power conditioning, utility design & transmission factors, local residential / commercial communications, navigation, & military applications whether terrestrial related or from above ie satellite, solar, ionosphere / magnetosphere events or manipulation.

      In my case I just want to protect from my house noise that can be addressed by smart installation minimizing interaction with other circuits that are known to cause noise - compressors in heat pumps, AC, refrigerators, fans & electrical heaters, noisy transformers & ballasts in lighting, doorbells, garage door openers etc.

      I may also try locating my active power conditioning as close as possible to the service panel and then running power from it directly out to the listening room just to see if proximity factors could diminish the unfavorable noise or any antenna effect from the other untreated circuits in house.

  • #4
    In the old days of Bell Labs, specified twisted pairs for twin conductors & originating end only terminated shielding helped reject or not attract stray signal degrading inputs. Now that faraday cage like grounding & ground plane noise & damage potential has come to the surface (at least in product marketing / sales) and of ground equipment, I suppose plain old MC / BX type cable continuously run (home run) with a correct and firm ground to the aluminum armor may have benefits also.

    Comment


    • Spla'nin
      Spla'nin commented
      Editing a comment
      Since posting the above comment, I ran into the VH Audio twisted Star Quad ac bulk wire power cable:

      "Star Quad (12 AWG X 4) is what VH Audio uses for it's Flavor 4 Power cable, and is also excellent when used as a speaker cable. It consists of FOUR 12 AWG FEP insulated copper conductors, tightly twisted into a Star Quad geometry, creating a low inductance/high capacitance configuration prone to reject RFI/EMI. Each of the four 12 AWG conductors is made with 19 strands of 25 AWG bare copper, which means excellent contact area when secured to AC plugs. Lastly, a clear FEP jacket encapsulates the four conductor bundle to keep relative movement of the conductors to a minimum. The Star Quad geometry concentrates the electrical field towards the CENTER of the conductor bundle, making this a self-shielding cable. Deep Cryogenic treatment. Cable is custom made to VH Audio's specifications, and is ONLY available at VH Audio." $9.49 a foot as of todays date.

      The JPS Labs product also eludes to having 'improved noise rejection & minimized inductance' (OFM) possibly in part from twisting or braiding of conductors
      Last edited by Spla'nin; 09-26-2017, 05:18 PM. Reason: addition info

  • #5
    Gigawatt who make some brilliant power conditioners also manufacture audiophile grade in-wall cable fyi. It looks like a solid product, though I haven't personally tried it.

    Comment


    • Spla'nin
      Spla'nin commented
      Editing a comment
      It looks interesting, I found it offered on the UK Ebay for approx. @$32 per meter but was unable so far to find a US vendor

    • Bodhi
      Bodhi commented
      Editing a comment
      It could be worth contacting Gigawatt directly if you’re interested. The have a Canadian Distributor who might be able to handle US orders as there are no territorial issues.

  • #6
    I have over 1000' of JPS Labs In-wall cable in my studio. I use it coming from the Equi=tech wall cabinet going to Oyaide R-1 receptacles. The only downside is that it is very large and cumbersome to install. You'll probably have to change your duplex boxes to deeper ones and you'll need to either solder/crimp the wire to the back of the receptacle. I had the electrician solder/crimp the wire to gold spades to connect to the back of the receptacle since it's a large stranded cable!

    Comment


    • Greg Beron
      Greg Beron commented
      Editing a comment
      Yep Bruce brings up a valid point, crimping and soldering is a very secure way to install a big cable into a receptacle.
      Furutech makes some special spade looking things that fit perfectly into a particular place in their receptacles and it will accommodate large gauge wire. It's really easy to just crimp onto the wire and screw down to provide a secure connection.

      When installing a larger gauge wire you DO NOT WANT IT TO BE LOOSE OR TOUCHING ANYTHING IT SHOULDN'T.
      At the least you will pop a breaker, or worse cause a FIRE!

      That's why they have electricians, always better to do it right.

  • #7
    This is a little cheaper way to go.
    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...SABEgIrB_D_BwE

    This may be the Cardas you are looking for
    SOURCE: VINYL - EAT C-Sharp with, EAT LPS power supply, My Sonic Lab Signature Gold
    DIGITAL - Auralic Vega G2 DAC. Schiit Yggdrasil DAC. Bluesound Node 2i streamer
    PHONOSTAGE: AudioNet PAM G2 with AudioNet EPX power supply.
    PREAMP: Audionet PRE G2.
    AMPLIFIER: Audionet MAX monoblocks.
    SPEAKERS: YG Acoustics Anat III Signatures (upgraded to Sonja 1.2) SVS SB-4000 subwoofers (x2)
    CABLES: Kubala-Sosna.....Audio Desk Systeme RCM, Adona Rack, GIK & Acoustimac room treatment, Isoacoustics

    Comment


    • Spla'nin
      Spla'nin commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks I did see that in a search so they may still have some individual stock left over @$16.29 per foot as of todays date.

  • #8
    If this is for power why not use 10/3 armored Bx cable
    o say 10-3 so the metallic armor is the shield and ground
    but you can tape the red unused wire green for isolation
    grounded outlets
    having the ground full size as the conductor is good even larger outside of the jacket is better but this will not be code compliant
    All receptical accept 10 gauge AWG size wire.
    If you buy a hospital grade 20 amp outlet it works fine
    get the isolated one it has a orange dot and green dot
    orange for iso ground green for hospital grade. Most all Audio grade outlets are hospital grade and they have here name put on them. Anyway good luck. Don’t crimp unless you have to and use deep 2 inch metal 1900 boxes with a bracket and a mud ring for the depth of the sheet rock
    plastic boxes cannot be used with armored cable
    10/3 Romex can be but use the same method as before tape the red green. Ground should be at least the size of the conductors and isolated to one ground point for power.
    If you need multiple circuits don’t use the 10/3 for two circuits.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #9
      http://www.afcweb.com/mc-metal-clad-...sized-neutral/


      Above is the perfect armored cable to use.
      The neurral is oversized.
      Tape neutral green
      tape red white
      this allows for oversized grounding for starr grounding when using an isolated outlet.
      This does not need you mean a iso transformer but gives each circuit a much lower ground imp
      code conpliance allows for taping the colors of manufactured cables but you cannot tape the ground wire any other color.
      You can use the ground wire and the neutral as well. You can try it using it and not.
      The panel of Main has the neutral bonded at this point
      I do reccomened a new ground wire to water and rod
      having more than one is code compliant
      if the panel is a sub panel I would use the main panel and not the sub panel. If you must use the sub panel. Run a new ground from that panel using an isolated grounding block in the subpanel to the main panel.
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • Spla'nin
        Spla'nin commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks, great advice and its interesting that steel armor is EMI shield rated but the aluminum is not. I will be able to run to the main service panel and I have already inspected the existing ground rod and connections & it is grim looking and was considering a new grounding rod also.

    • #10
      Metallic is EMI insulated it’s a feros metal alum is not and does not shield EMI lol. The purple cable looks
      like Romex but it’s rating is for communications not house wiring.
      Also save the money the hobby is nuts enough
      I am not an audio dealer just s hobbiest
      but I am a lisc electrocal contracttor and electrical engineer. Audio is just nuts. Anyway enjoy your quest
      the one cable is I feel perfect also runs new water ground anyway a redundant one if your main is 200 amp use min 4 gauge but larger as in 2 gauge is better.
      Add a new grounding hub to your existing water main. And don’t remove what’s there period. If your neutral coming in from the utility is loose you will fry the House devices. Add only lol.
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • kcin
        kcin commented
        Editing a comment
        [QUOTE=Alrainbow;n66190]Metallic is EMI insulated it’s a feros metal alum is not and does not shield EMI lol. The purple cable looks
        like Romex but it’s rating is for communications not house wiring.
        Also save the money the hobby is nuts enough
        I am not an audio dealer just s hobbiest
        but I am a lisc electrocal contracttor and electrical engineer. Audio is just nuts. Anyway enjoy your quest
        the one cable is I feel perfect also runs new water ground anyway a redundant one if your main is 200 amp use min 4 gauge but larger as in 2 gauge is better.
        Add a new grounding hub to your existing water main. And don’t remove what’s there period. If your neutral coming in from the utility is loose you will fry the House devices. Add only lol. [/QUOTE



        This is great advice that has good merit from a professional point of view. I have used a similar galv sheathed product for my lines to my listening room.

        You've got give your head a shake at $33/ foot wow! for some of the product mentioned above. Invest in some receptacles and buy the above mentioned product from a good wholesaler. There will be equivalent products available throughout the country under different brands depending on distribution. Upping the ground size and making sure it is secure/clean where it bonds by adding additional ground will probably do more that the super cable above.

        Good luck.

    • #11
      a few pics....

      Comment


      • Spla'nin
        Spla'nin commented
        Editing a comment
        The quality electrical work looks good. Very nice

      • Bruce B
        Bruce B commented
        Editing a comment
        I feel any system lives and dies by its infrastructure!! Folks wouldn't believe the $$$ spent behind the walls that they cannot see!!!

    • #12
      The electricians hands must of cramped up installing those connections on the receptacles.. tough working with that gauge wire in a tight box. .... nice planning on your work...
      Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
      Brinkmann La Grange & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
      Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
      Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
      Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2
      Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

      Comment


      • #13
        BRUCE it looks very professionally installed.
        What gauge is the wire and it looks like THW insulation nice and thick.
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • Bruce B
          Bruce B commented
          Editing a comment
          I believe it's 10/3

      • #14
        Nice picks , thanks for the info. Do you se any starr point grounding for signal ? Home made or bought ?
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • Bruce B
          Bruce B commented
          Editing a comment
          This is a balanced system.... 60/60/grnd. The ground wires from the panel is connected to (2) 30' copper rods that were drove into the soil.
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