AC Power Cords

[MylesBAstor]

AC power cords (well maybe results with AC PLC are slightly more erratic) are more hit or miss nee system dependent, than any other high-end product in my experience. Perhaps the most frustrating situation has been finding a good power cord to use high powered amplifiers. More often than not, AC power cords seem to choke the dynamics of big power amplifiers.

What AC power cords have you tried in your system and what have been your experiences and results?

[siddh]

I have gone through a number of power cords, with mixed results. Early, early on I tried Siltech cords with Jadis electronics, per the distributor's recommendations. And although they bettered the mfg. cord, over time their limitations were exposed. From there I experimented with NBS, Purist, Electrglide, TG Audio, Magnan...among others. In the late 90's I was introduced to FIM Golds, which I was much taken by, and fitted the system with a full loom. The FIM's offered a somewhat golden hue. I found this very infective...for awhile. Next I went to Virtual Dynamics. Started with lower line-product, eventually to the upper tier. A really good cable. About two years ago I sampled HiDiamond, following 'gon posts. A few P3's and P4's. A nice cord with my equipment. Added some meat and density, with a slight loss in dynamics. Finally, I have moved into High Fidelity Ultimate throughout. These cables have brought my systems playback to a musical, well delineated presentation.

[longbowbbs]

I have a Green Line power cable from ALO Audio. I use it on the Cary. It does seem to have a modest improvement in scale so I am probably going to get a couple more for my other amps.

[MylesBAstor]

I have gone through a number of power cords, with mixed results. Early, early on I tried Siltech cords with Jadis electronics, per the distributor's recommendations. And although they bettered the mfg. cord, over time their limitations were exposed.

Was that Veek-Tor or Frank?

From there I experimented with NBS, Purist, Electrglide, TG Audio, Magnan...among others. In the late 90's I was introduced to FIM Golds, which I was much taken by, and fitted the system with a full loom. The FIM's offered a somewhat golden hue. I found this very infective...for awhile.

Now known as Cable Research Labs. Art Olmstead from Twisted Pair Design worked with Chip Winston to redesign the cables. I think the cables were originally designed by Brian Weitzel from Tube Research Labs, Winston Ma picked them the line up later followed by Garth Leerer where the cables sat. I reviewed the CRL ICs and speaker cables s a while ago. Like you said very nice, little dark but most of all way too heavy and bent the hell out of connectors. After than experience, swore off using heavy power cords, ICs or speaker cables.

Next I went to Virtual Dynamics. Started with lower line-product, eventually to the upper tier. A really good cable. About two years ago I sampled HiDiamond, following 'gon posts. A few P3's and P4's. A nice cord with my equipment. Added some meat and density, with a slight loss in dynamics. Finally, I have moved into High Fidelity Ultimate throughout. These cables have brought my systems playback to a musical, well delineated presentation.

Yes finding the right PC is a little like finding the anti-depressant that works for you. Lots of trial and error.

[siddh]

It was Victor-dare-I-say-Goldstein. Along with the Jadis equipment and Siltech cables I purchased from him, a pair of Avalon Ascents..in olive made their way into my life. Kind of miss those babies...as HP described, the thinking man's speaker. May explain why I am longer in possession of them.

The FIM's were of Winston Ma's generation. A work out to form and fit, but once placed and settled a non-issue until tripped over.

Difficult to predict with any accuracy as to how long the High Fidelity will stick, but for now they are the cleanest most organic cable I have had in any of my systems. Fingers are crossed.

[JackD201]

Lamm power supplies seem to be the least picky of all the marks of all the amps I have in house (I have about 11 around here). That said, the ones I ultimately ended my search for ended up being Master-Built Signatures. These had in the end the midrange of my former reference the K-S emotions but also had a freer flowing (errrr "natural") top and bottom end. Things that make a difference on both atmospherics/hall size and layering. I like the balance here because it doesn't add to any over done image outlining.

[marty]

I'd like to share with you the results of a year plus effort to identify a power cord that I think performs remarkably well and is affordable.

But let me begin by saying that although I've been struggling with this quest for a very long time, the most recent and productive part to my journey began shortly after visiting the great Karmeli last year. David urged me to tear out some very high priced power cables and replace them with some of the cheapest PCs cables ever made. But don't be fooled. They weren't just any cables. Rather they were discovered by David after a very long quest. They are not made by a famous audio manufacturer, but by a huge industrial company in China. David loaned me a few pair. Don't pay attention to anything, he said, except the naturalness of the midrange. Because if you ain't got that, then whatever else the cable does makes it worthless in his opinion. And sure enough, from the minute I gradually substituted one, two and then three of his cables for mine, I was dumbfounded. What I could not see until that point, is how I went down a rabbit hole thinking my expensive cables were superior, when in fact they were not superior in the most basic of attributes, which was delivering a natural sounding midrange. Oh, they may have offered better this or that, but the bottom line was that I was kidding myself because I lost a key element to my system's overall musicality- the critical natural sounding midrange. Yup. David's insight was a real eye-opener for me. (This is what audiophile friends are for!! Friends do not let friends listen drunk!)

Fast forward. Since that time, I began a search for a no frills, inexpensive cable that might actually improve slightly on David's El-cheapo cables, particularly in the extremes since I honestly didn't think improving the midrange was easily accomplished. However, I did think my expensive PCs may have rendered the bass a tad better, so the search began. I'll cut to the chase. I've tried a lot of stuff (including the famous Pangea w Cardas wire). And I've done it in a very controlled, single variable series of experiments, always using the El-cheapos as a control. I'm now at the point that I can say I'm satisfied with the outcome of my listening experiments and have settled on one cable that I think performs beautifully for me. Its basically a variant of this:http://www.audioartcable.com/Articles.asp?ID=153.

This wonderful cable is NOT the top of the line cable from Audio Art, a small, custom manufacturer of interconnects and PCs that has been around for a long time and sells direct to the end-user. Their 1SE PC is nothing fancy and has no filters of any kind, but rather is a well made, well shielded cable made of copper. The key is NOT to order it with the Furutech F28 rhodium connectors but rather with the Gold connectors at both ends. Audio Arts sells a top of the line PC cable that frankly, I did not like as it is made from silver platted copper wire. So it is the more inexpensive copper PC, the 1SE with Furutech F28 gold plug set, that floats my boat. For about $500 bucks (ask for the "I'm nobody special" discount- you'll probably get one), its not only damn good, but as of yet, I have not found anything substantially better. Not only is the midrange gorgeous and natural sounding, but the extremes are also very good. Taken as a whole, there is nothing about it that calls attention to itself in any way. At least in my system. Of course YMMV, but for me, it's a compelling game, set, match. At least to the point that I am thankfully done for now and have no desire to look further or spend more money than 500 bucks for a PC. Oh, and here's the best part. When you place an order, you will deal with Rob Fritz, the owner, who not only replies promptly, but offers a money back guaranty! That's correct. Don't like it? Send it back. I tried a lot of Rob's cables and believe me, sent several back (interconnects as well) and it didn't phase him at all. But he really does have at least one gem in his stable, the 1SE PC with the F(28)G plug set. I would suggest starting your evaluation by trying one on your pre-amp, and the take it from there if you like it. I think you'll soon see why one has grown to six in my system.

[Rust]

I've been watching the great power cord debate for years. Even dabbled in the low price end of the pond with Shunyata Venoms, Pangea and Kimber. I think there were improvements in the amplifier and CD player. Subjective and all. The preamp didn't seem to care one way or another.

My theory is that better performance in part comes from better termination in either end of the power cord, either better eutectic high silver content solder for molded plugs or better/tighter conductor grip in multi part plugs. Maybe some comes from winding the hot and neutral so as to prevent inductive coupling.

I hear all sorts of technical sounding jargon in the add copy which is essentially meaningless, a lot less of reality based technical proof. One thing that gets my motor running is the claims that some cord may provide better current flow. Maybe in a lab but how does a three foot cable make up for the multiple connections, the crappy fifty foot run of 14 gauge Romex house wiring and the cheapest circuit breaker it's possible to manufacture.

My thoughts are with better power supply design in the electronics, much of the angst over power cords would become a moot point. Vinnie Rossi has a point with no power connection.

[MylesBAstor]

I've been watching the great power cord debate for years. Even dabbled in the low price end of the pond with Shunyata Venoms, Pangea and Kimber. I think there were improvements in the amplifier and CD player. Subjective and all. The preamp didn't seem to care one way or another.

My theory is that better performance in part comes from better termination in either end of the power cord, either better eutectic high silver content solder for molded plugs or better/tighter conductor grip in multi part plugs. Maybe some comes from winding the hot and neutral so as to prevent inductive coupling.

I hear all sorts of technical sounding jargon in the add copy which is essentially meaningless, a lot less of reality based technical proof. One thing that gets my motor running is the claims that some cord may provide better current flow. Maybe in a lab but how does a three foot cable make up for the multiple connections, the crappy fifty foot run of 14 gauge Romex house wiring and the cheapest circuit breaker it's possible to manufacture.

My thoughts are with better power supply design in the electronics, much of the angst over power cords would become a moot point. Vinnie Rossi has a point with no power connection.

No question that the plugs make a difference.

[MylesBAstor]

Hmmm....anyone remember Tice's tuneable PCs?

Has anyone heard the new Furutech power cords? Dave Stanard of Silver Circle is very enthusiastic about them. Interestingly the choice of power cords made a sizeable difference with his PLC. His Vesuvius II was a big upgrade from the initial PC. Am curious about the Furutech.

[Guest]

Lamm power supplies seem to be the least picky of all the marks of all the amps I have in house (I have about 11 around here). ...

That's my experience as well, re Lamm; it's not by accident.


I use Shunyata Anaconda power cords.. Their design is focused on maximizing on demand current delivery.

[Leif S]

Lamm power supplies seem to be the least picky of all the marks of all the amps I have in house (I have about 11 around here). That said, the ones I ultimately ended my search for ended up being Master-Built Signatures. These had in the end the midrange of my former reference the K-S emotions but also had a freer flowing (errrr "natural") top and bottom end. Things that make a difference on both atmospherics/hall size and layering. I like the balance here because it doesn't add to any over done image outlining.

Hi Jack,

I can't wait till you get a chance to hear the new Ultra PC's. I still have trouble wrapping my mind around what they are doing and how just one PC can change the sound on such level. I was in love with the Signatures until the Ultras arrived. Now I can't go back lol. Still wonderfully balanced with an unmatched purity. The cables should be down your way soon

[JackD201]

I need to ask Mr. 111 to buy extras and give me some! I'm savin' up for those Rosso 55s. I don't think they'll last long in my care though. I have a feeling they'll get snapped up really quickly.

[Leif S]

LMAO..........

Did Mr. 111's show you the pics? This is only a few of them

[david k]

I went full CIRCLE, it was a very big circle , from using do nothing stock cords to all kinds of high end ones that did many things and right back to do nothing cords. My problem with the even the ones that I really liked initially was that audiophile cords did things exactly as advertised, i.e. brought in a coloration when there was none. One might actually like the "SOUND" of these cords but it becomes a constant and you make other system choices accordingly, the rabbit hole that Marty mentioned above. Hence back to basic cords that aren't "designed" and have no discernible coloration...

david

[MylesBAstor]

I went full CIRCLE, it was a very big circle , from using do nothing stock cords to all kinds of high end ones that did many things and right back to do nothing cords. My problem with the even the ones that I really liked initially was that audiophile cords did things exactly as advertised, i.e. brought in a coloration when there was none. One might actually like the "SOUND" of these cords but it becomes a constant and you make other system choices accordingly, the rabbit hole that Marty mentioned above. Hence back to basic cords that aren't "designed" and have no discernible coloration...

david

That was exactly my experience too. Choosing PCs--and IC and speaker cables too--came down to choosing the lesser of two evils. Eliminating those cables with an upper midrange brightness narrowed the field down by 50% or more. Eliminating those cables that compromised the soundstage or dynamics narrowed the field down even further (if there's one thing I can't stand is PLC or cables that mess with the stage).

Luckily, my experience with the newer cables has been a lot better and I've heard some very good cables that down cost an arm or a leg either. It just seems there are a lot of tradeoffs in designing a PC and again PC seem to work better on front-end rather than amps. In fact, it wasn't until I got Gary Koh's new PCs that I finally heard a cable that I really wanted in my system.