Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tripoint Audio grounding devices

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tripoint Audio grounding devices

    People who are familiar with the Whatsbestforum might know that I started two separate threads on two grounding devices that have seriously impresssed me: the Tripoint Troy signature and the Tripoint emperor (the latter is absolutely amazing). By intuition (I am not a technician) I have always been intrigued by the concept of grounding. That was for me one of the reasons why I opted many moons ago for the top of the line Taralabs cables (at first the zero gold ic's and omega gold loudspeakers cables. Later I replaced those by the current top of the line Grandmaster evolution ic's and loudspakers cables) as these cables are being offered with their own grounding boxes.

    The Tripoint components (including the Tripoint Thor se grounding cable and the soon to be released Tripoint Emperor grounding cable (btw, I have not yet heard the latter myself but according to Miguel his Emperor ground cable is really extraordinary) are in my view 'regular' audio pieces, that is they are in my humble opinion crucial to get the best out of your audio system.

    I will add in the next post some past comments in order to give the readers who are not familiar with the concept of grounding and/or Tripoint Audio some idea of the benefits of grounding. Later this week (or maybe somewhere next week) I will add some additional comments as regards grounding (albeit only rather briefly) my Tidal La Assoluta loudspeakers. Jörn Janczak of Tidal Audio added dedicated grounding terminals on the back of my LA' s (these special grounding terminals are standard btw on the LA and the Tidal Akira loudspeakers). And although I had no bindings post left on my Troy signature that I am currently using in my LA set up nor any Tripoint grounding cables, I was able to connect the LA's with another grounding box and two other grounding cables.

  • #2
    So what are the various Tripoin devices bringing to the (sound)table? In my view: refinement, purity and serenity.

    Getting emotionally involved into the music is ultimately much more important than audiophile expressions like power, dynamics, transparency, PRAT, soundstaging, etc. By adding the Troy signature and in particularly the Tripoint emperor to my two systems (one is the afore mentioned Tidal La Assoluta in combination with Kondo amplification, the other is the Genesis 1.1 system that is also being played with Kondo preamp and (Kaguoh) power amps) they have undoubtedly become more refined, fluid, smooth and pure, that is the emotional impact is clearly more profound. The same applies to the calmness/serinity/fluidity of the musical presentation: that was already very good indeed before installing the Troy and the Emperor but has gotten even better. Eg voices are sounding glorious, that is clearly more natural. But at the same time both systems have become more transparant and revealing. In short, the sound reproduction is more natural than before, that is the use of technical means for reproducing music in the listening room has become much less obvious.

    I absolutely love what the Tripoint Troy signature is doing and I believe that much more audiophiles need to hear this stunning device in order to find out what their systems are really capable of. However, in all honesty it cannot be compared to the Tripoint emperor. This should not come as a surprise if you take the price difference between these two components into account. The Tripoint emperor is really another dimension. Compared to the Tripoint emperor the Tripoint Troy sounds (somewhat) crude. In audiophile terms the differences are: a deeper and wider soundstage, more transparency, a lower noice floor, better focussing and more dynamics/fluidity/refinement/smoothness/silkyness/resolution.

    May I ask other readers to respond, inter alia by describing their experiences with the Tripoint Troy and Tripoint emperor?

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for bringing up a topic that has really piqued my--and hopefully should have--other audiophiles interest! File this one under the better our systems get (and we are not just talking money here but overall, the quality of all levels of audio playback have improved!), the more sensitive they become and we are aware of the insidious effects of everything around and going thru them. Not unlike how obvious the difference and improvements wrought by changing connectors, whether they be of the RCA or AC receptacle variety--has become. Years ago, there were too many wrong with our systems and bigger fish fry to notice the effects of grounding, etc.

      I wonder how many people remember the old Nakamichi ground tester for determining the correct ground orientation of the equipment? Or how many people measure with a digital AC multimeter the lowest ground potential of their gear? Only problem is if the plug is incorrectly oriented, the main fix(other than cutting off the ground lug of the AC plug) is a cheater plug. And you can certainly hear the effects of using a cheater plug: hashier, harsher and grainy sounds being among the bad effects. Well maybe that opens up a new tweak: audiophile quality cheater plugs.

      And there must be something to it because several different products have hit the market lately and people's whose ears I trust, have remarked about the benefits of using the Tripoint and other similar products. It is amazing that the Tripoint benefits even the Kondo gear, that already sounds my system, pretty darn amazing. But how many times is it the case that you don't notice the problem until it's gone?

      We talk about about many qualities in our system being elusive and fleeting. We get to a point and think, "Wow, now if only I can do that," and you lose that magical moment. Probably no quality is more fleeting, elusive or rare in equipment than emotional involvement. A lot of components play notes. Fewer yet play music and that is often what differentiates high-end audio from what someone buys at Best Buy. But yet rarer is that component that emotionally involves you. That component where you find yourself swaying to the music. That component where you find yourself singing along to the music. That component where you shed a tear listening to a favorite sad song.

      Anyway, I'm glad the topic of grounding has been raised because I see this and connectors being two new avenues for audiophiles to get more out of their existing gear and return on their money. Not to mention, just sheer enjoyment from their system!
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #4
        Believe me Myles, connecting my Kondo m1000 preamps through Tripoint Thor se grounding cables to the Tripoint Emperor (Genesis set up) and Tripoint Troy se (Tidal La Assoluta set up) makes a real difference. Just lowering the noisefloor is already important. Btw, I have not (yet?) grounded my Kondo Gakuoh power amps because they are missing a separate 'grounding' post and connecting the very heavy Thor se cables to the - very small - screws in these amps is not ideal.

        And yes, you are completely right that a lot of times you need to experience something (really) better in order to understand what can be bettered in an audio system.

        Comment


        • #5
          Btw, I forget to remark the following: the Tripoint Troy signature was tested by various professional reviewers in different parts of the world ( USA, Far East, Europe). All those reviewers were seriously impressed by it as the many users apparently are because the Tripoint components rarely show up on the second hand market.

          Comment


          • #6
            What do these things actually do? I'm not looking for comments on how they change the sound of one's system, although those are really tantalizing. Instead I'm looking for a white paper or a review or a discussion on another bboard that explains the basic theory of operation? I could see how one could make things worse by introducing new ground loops. How does one avoid that problem and still do something useful?
            Thanks,
            ---Gary
            Analog: Scheu + Immedia RPM tonearm + Koetsu Black + Pass Xono or Threshold FET 10pe
            Amps: First Watt F7, HK Citation II
            Pre-Amps: CJ Premier 14, Threshold FET 10e, DIY 417a with output transformer
            Speakers: Horning Eufrodite, Reference 3A mm de capo
            Tuners: Sansui TU9900, McIntosh MR78
            Digital: i7 Server (Roon) + SSD, Sonore urendu + Mutec MC3+ USB + Berkeley Alpha Dac, Audiomeca Mephisto
            Power: Audience AR12, Torus Tot, DIY filters

            Comment


            • #7
              http://tripointaudio.us/PRODUCTS.htm
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
              -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
              -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

              Comment


              • #8
                Myles - thanks for the link. The website isn't very specific about how they achieve their goals but they do say that they eliminate ground loops. That's got me scratching my head a bit because the best way of eliminating ground loops is to open up the ground connection causing the problem, which is what one does with a cheater plug. Since they're not doing that, then they must be using very large gauge wire to connect all devices together and effectively force all devices to the same potential and short out any ground loop potential differences. Which would mean that they're not really eliminating ground loops but instead just greatly reducing their impact.
                Not a bad idea but not really elimination of ground loops either. But it does seem to be a very expensive solution to a problem that could be solved in a simpler manner. Which relates to other discussions underway about cost effective audio.
                ---Gary
                Analog: Scheu + Immedia RPM tonearm + Koetsu Black + Pass Xono or Threshold FET 10pe
                Amps: First Watt F7, HK Citation II
                Pre-Amps: CJ Premier 14, Threshold FET 10e, DIY 417a with output transformer
                Speakers: Horning Eufrodite, Reference 3A mm de capo
                Tuners: Sansui TU9900, McIntosh MR78
                Digital: i7 Server (Roon) + SSD, Sonore urendu + Mutec MC3+ USB + Berkeley Alpha Dac, Audiomeca Mephisto
                Power: Audience AR12, Torus Tot, DIY filters

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'll preface this by saying I've had a very bad day.

                  I went to the wen site. It's like listening to a politician, lots of flowery verbiage with zero content.They claim to have a patent. Well, maybe they could list the number since patents are public domain and maybe give some technical justification for the claims.

                  Comment


                  • MylesBAstor
                    MylesBAstor commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It is a commercial website, not an academic university. I hope Miguel will come when he has time and talk more about his product for there's much more here than people realize. I'm just not the person to discuss the Tripoint.

                    Technical is technical; most explanations are at best correlations anyway and hardly cause-effect. Change one thing and you affect twenty other variables. In the end, the proof is in the listening and several people have communicated --as well as suggested -- that I try and get these products for review. Each person has relayed to me about how much the Tripoints have improved their system. Audiocrack and Audioblazer have been talking about the effects of the Tripoint for a year now. In addition, others have had good success with the Entreq as well as Frank Voons unit in Asia. People have laughed at a lot of things like connectors, orienting plugs, etc over the years and over time they've become affects. I ask people withhold judgement until in full possession of the facts.

                • #10
                  OK, I've had dinner, three scotches and a cigar. To quote Harry's father on Night Court, "I feel MUCH better now". But still, no, I'll hold off....AHHHHHHH!

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I can only confirm what Audiocrack said about the Tripoint Troy Signature and Thor SE cables. This additional "grounding solution" really works, you just have to hear it once and you are finished. Hundreds of happy users all over the world confirm exactly the same sonic benefits it brings to the table. When I first heard about the Troy several years ago, I was surprised that all users experienced and described exactly the same improvements - "bigger soundstage, better 3D imaging, cleaner, clearer and more natural presentation, better transparency, more intense emotional connection with the music...etc. How is it possible that all of us hear exactly the same "effects"? Is this some kind of group sonic hallucination? I haven't read not even one negative comment about the Troy from audiophiles who have heard it. Yes, there are skeptics but I'm not here to convince anyone. I'll just buy more Thor SE cables in the future because they bring more of the Troy magic.
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000025.jpg
Views:	552
Size:	49.0 KB
ID:	10911
                    Last edited by Marcus; 04-09-2016, 08:00 AM.
                    Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Signature; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Power filter: P.I Audo: BUSS Depot; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                    Comment


                    • MylesBAstor
                      MylesBAstor commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Man I must have the messiest audio system in the world!

                  • #12
                    Hello Marcus,

                    Looking at your picture am I right to conclude that you are currently using one Thor se grounding cable that is connected to your Zanden phonostage? Glad to notice that we are experiencing the same benefits and that we are both of the opinion that these benefits are profound.

                    Comment


                    • Marcus
                      Marcus commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes, you're right.

                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Audiocrack View Post
                    Btw, I have not (yet?) grounded my Kondo Gakuoh power amps because they are missing a separate 'grounding' post and connecting the very heavy Thor se cables to the - very small - screws in these amps is not ideal.
                    You raised one important point Audiocrack - grounding posts. Most audio components don't have them, except phono stages of course but there are more and more exceptions (Zanden, Robert Koda and Tidal for example) popping out every day. Although connecting grounding cables to tiny chassis screws is something most of us accept as normal, I think this method is at least not very secure and questionable regarding the contact quality.

                    So, what can we do? Here's one example. When I ordered ART mono blocks, guys at conrad-johnson were kind enough to mount grounding posts in place of one of the chassis screw. Franc Kuzma did a similar modification on the tonearm tower and on the power supply unit for the XL DC turntable and finally I did this myself on the GAT preamp. Since adding the grounding unit to the audio system is (IMO) one of the most important upgrades one can make, I think this approach should be executed with proper connections as well. We put so much care and attention to all connections in the audio system, why would be the grounding an exception...

                    On conrad-johnson GAT line stage I substituted a screw with the proper grounding post. The result: Tight and secure connection.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000533.jpg
Views:	538
Size:	232.7 KB
ID:	13138

                    ART mono: The ordinary screw is now the "Original" conrad-johnson grounding post.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000531.jpg
Views:	676
Size:	282.6 KB
ID:	13139

                    Something even better... the Cardas grounding post.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000137.jpg
Views:	541
Size:	236.6 KB
ID:	13140

                    Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Signature; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Power filter: P.I Audo: BUSS Depot; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Very interesting contribution, Marcus, because a lot of manufacturers are indeed not yet (fully) aware of the great importance of the concept of grounding. However, like you for my two latest audio acquisitions I requested the two manufacturers to add dedicated grounding post. My Tidal La Assoluta loudspeakers (like the Tidal Akira loudspeakers) are standard delivered with special grounding precautions and dedicated grounding posts on both loudspeakers (Tidal was already contemplating the grounding concept when I brought it up). I am not sure about the Lampizator golden gate dac but mine was delivered with a special grounding post.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Although it does not really belong in this thread please take notice of the Audio Exotics hifi show next month in Hong Kong. Miguel of Tripoint audio will introduce and demo a new product at this show that is going to seriously impress the audio community.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X