$500,000 Riddle

[MylesBAstor]

Why should the quality of a power cord make a difference with a power line conditioner?

[cpp]

Neither will make a difference if your main power is noisy, poor grounds, weak breakers or loose connections.

[Goheelz]

We might ask as well: Why should dedicated AC lines make a difference if one already uses an AC regenerator unit (in my case a PS Audio P10)? The addition of two dedicated AC lines in my case DID make a positive difference with much lower noise and improved imaging, even though I'd previously installed the P10 (which itself brought considerable improvement).

I admit that, after adding the P10 and the dedicated AC lines, I've not removed my audiophile-approved AC cords from the system to see whether they are having no positive effect by themselves. Perhaps this is because I'm a bit lazy or my OCD level is less than that of some other folks?

[david k]

Why should the quality of a power cord make a difference with a power line conditioner?

Ask 10 engineers and you'll get ten different answers, I'm going crazy trying to figure out why the ground wire coming from outside into the electrical panel has a huge, HUGE! impact on the sound when only one system component is grounded...

david

[allenh]

Curious, which component? Amp? Source?

[david k]

System is in the links under my signature. The grounded component is currently the phonostage otherwise it would be the preamp.
david

[Bill Hart]

David- wasn't this the classic "float all grounds except preamp" approach that was around back in the day? The question of why- each component has a different grounding scheme, and different grounding potentials which can cause noise- I can hear it if something is off on my horns- i don't doubt you can on yours. By lifting the grounds on everything except one component, and using the interconnects to 'star ground' to a central point, you are minimizing that, or so the theory goes. (Somebody that can speak to electrical circuits competently can correct me. It is also my understanding that this is regarded as a serious shock or fire hazard in the event that something goes awry, violates code, nullifies insurance claims, etc. but ground lifting was pretty common. I always had issues with the Lamm ML2 in that respect...).

[david k]

David- wasn't this the classic "float all grounds except preamp" approach that was around back in the day? The question of why- each component has a different grounding scheme, and different grounding potentials which can cause noise- I can hear it if something is off on my horns- i don't doubt you can on yours. By lifting the grounds on everything except one component, and using the interconnects to 'star ground' to a central point, you are minimizing that, or so the theory goes. (Somebody that can speak to electrical circuits competently can correct me. It is also my understanding that this is regarded as a serious shock or fire hazard in the event that something goes awry, violates code, nullifies insurance claims, etc. but ground lifting was pretty common. I always had issues with the Lamm ML2 in that respect...).

Hi Bill,
What worked then still works today, that's why its a classic. There's no additional danger of electrocution if you ground one over all components but there's a sonic element to which way you go. You can even ground lift everything off the mains and ground them through a chassis. Ground sensitivity isn't just a Lamm issue, Denon doesn't even provide the 3rd pin on their equipment. The last 3 years I had the opportunity to try several different ground configurations and I'm amazed on the sonic impact of earthing on the system. I'm not talking about the mystery boxes which either did nothing or had negative impact in my system, this is real engineer designed ground networks.

david

[Alrainbow]

That is not true , you can be shocked by any ungrounded component unless it's made to be ungrounded . Not all ground terminals on devices are grounded to the case . But I do see your point it does stop the ground loops

[MylesBAstor]

Hi Bill,
What worked then still works today, that's why its a classic. There's no additional danger of electrocution if you ground one over all components but there's a sonic element to which way you go. You can even ground lift everything off the mains and ground them through a chassis. Ground sensitivity isn't just a Lamm issue, Denon doesn't even provide the 3rd pin on their equipment. The last 3 years I had the opportunity to try several different ground configurations and I'm amazed on the sonic impact of earthing on the system. I'm not talking about the mystery boxes which either did nothing or had negative impact in my system, this is real engineer designed ground networks.

david

Is this akin to the Namiki polarity tester or unplugging the ICs from each component, measuring the voltage between the chassis and ground of receptacle one way, then reversing the AC plug, measuring again and choosing the lowest value?

[Bill Hart]

Myles, I think David is talking about using cheaters or eliminating the third pin (or not connecting it somehow), rather than plug orientation. You know, a "Full Lumley."*


________
*Do you know what a "Full Cleveland" is? BTW, I have one of those polarity testers- have to check who made it- haven't used it in years.

[MylesBAstor]

Myles, I think David is talking about using cheaters or eliminating the third pin (or not connecting it somehow), rather than plug orientation. You know, a "Full Lumley."*


________
*Do you know what a "Full Cleveland" is? BTW, I have one of those polarity testers- have to check who made it- haven't used it in years.

Namiki.

[david k]

Is this akin to the Namiki polarity tester or unplugging the ICs from each component, measuring the voltage between the chassis and ground of receptacle one way, then reversing the AC plug, measuring again and choosing the lowest value?

No Myles this doesn't have anything to do with polarity its about the ground. You can use cheaters but in my case I break the ground pin off the cord's plug.

https://www.grainger.com/product/LEV...AS01?$smthumb$

An example of what I mean by ground networks, I buried 4 different types of conductors of various configuration and materials in the back yard, this is only one of them.









david

[MylesBAstor]

No Myles this doesn't have anything to do with polarity its about the ground. You can use cheaters but in my case I break the ground pin off the cord's plug.

https://www.grainger.com/product/LEV...AS01?$smthumb$

An example of what I mean by ground networks, I buried 4 different types of conductors of various configuration and materials in the back yard, this is only one of them.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]n17632[/ATTACH]


[ATTACH=CONFIG]n17633[/ATTACH]


[ATTACH=CONFIG]n17634[/ATTACH]


david

That's serious! Why different metals?

On a lighter note, did you sign up for SETA?

[david k]

That's serious! Why different metals?

Materials, not metals. The conductors are all copper but have different configuration, the material is different types of GEM or ground enhancing materials that encase the conductor in the ground.

On a lighter note, did you sign up for SETA?

Not if we're thinking of the same SETA ! System Engineering & Technical Assistance?

david

[MylesBAstor]

Materials, not metals. The conductors are all copper but have different configuration, the material is different types of GEM or ground enhancing materials that encase the conductor in the ground.



Not if we're thinking of the same SETA ! System Engineering & Technical Assistance?

david

There's a lot of info in the thread though it's getting a little convulated.

So I guess before I try and get back to the original question, is what can an apartment dweller do given their limited ability to change things to optimize their AC? Al? Anyone?

[MylesBAstor]

So let me return to the original question. If a PLC is supposed to remedy all the issues in the AC line, why, short of constricting dynamics due to poor design, should a power cord make a bit of difference? Conversely then, what in the AC line is not being addressed by the PLC?

[cpp]

I was under the impression from all my years working at numerous major design and engineering companies that clean power coming into the building trumps all. But, if one lives in an appt or a building that is owned by someone else you have no other choice but to clean the power within your home with a PLC. A power cord , well its never worked for me with dirty power regardless how much the AC cord cost and if a person has used a quality PLC why in the world would you spend more money on some fancy AC power cord. ps: PLC does not address the building or AC ground you need to address that at the main grounding source with the power company and your electrician.