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  • Grounding Boxes: truth or twaddle

    I'm reading spirited conversation regarding grounding boxes on other forums. I'll preface the rest by saying I have never heard any of these boxes. I am however educated in EE and I just don't understand what is being accomplished in these boxes.

    In industry multiple ground paths and phantom currents play havoc with control systems and equipment. Phase to ground bonding allows for low impedance path for safety, ,equalized potentials and provides a true 0 reference. So I get the need for a single path for multiple reasons.

    In practice we sometimes must break these paths because of phantom ground potentials lurking around causing the dreaded potential difference or hum.

    So whats going on here except for linking the back plane of your signal grounds through fancy wire to a common point.

    I can hear differences in cable--- I just don't get the cost of these things. ... I just imagine a copper or silver plate in a box of conductive dust with all the ground posts connected to it. It's probably that simple.

    I will experiment in the coming while with all of this.. if I can find someone in our greater audio group that has one I will try for a listen.

    What do you hear with these?

    How about some good copper wire linking your components together on their chassis screws and/or input output connectors? Couldn't be much different.

    I'm willing to listen to those who have experienced them and especially to those who can explain what is going on without the partisan "techno" speak of the manufacturers.

    What say you?

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  • #2
    I say your right but you will get bitched slapped for a few good reasons. One is the blokes who own them and feel there is plenty to be heard in improvment. Second as some may actually understand most do not except for the hype they read that in certain circumstances can improve things. My setup is completely isolated and is. It is not attached to my ground rod or water main it's fed from a 10 k ISO transformer with a 208 single phase input to a isolated paralleled 120 volt output to a simple panel. All circuits have one ground path to the panel in fact I use one simple 6 gauge ground wire from all isolated hospital grade outlets back to the panel. There is only one ground path point hats it. Yes it's not bec code complient but my system is dead silent. But beyond the non humming is a lower noise level to hear from. If I take that panel and ground it to my system I don't hear him. But the music suffers in a Lowe details level and it's repeatible
    let me know how it goes I am very interested in your info.
    Zero potentil in more than one ground path is what I think they achieve but consider two things. One they use a Heavy gauge wire this would improve ground Inc paths to this box. The second is they may have a cap and choke filter inside tunned to reduce noise on the ground path hat exists. Like the Denali does and it works too. On the secondary of my ISO I have a cap to reduce noise on the line that does go pass through. I don't see and D.C. Offset when I measure it either. One circuit feeds a ps Ausio P10 that shows an improved signwave after the ISO as well. If you closely they do use a very nice wood box too lol.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #3
      After having much interest in the grounding successes of others, I began the blogs search. One fellow adamantly held the view that star grounding equals to, if not surpasses the use of ground boxes. I followed his instructions, as best I could, and ran 8 awg copper to all component chassis' to a single ground source, which was directed to my homes ground pipe, via 6 awg copper. It has helped reduce noise, which in turn allows me to raise the volume with less grain and etch. My curiosity in the likes of Tripoint and Entreq remains, especially with the multitudes of positive reviews. Only the lack of scratch prevents me from taming the itch.
      Avalon Time, Walker Proscenium, Koetsu Coralstone, Air Tight PC-1 Supreme, Goldfinger Statement, Dalby record weight, Kondo KSL-SFz step-up, Jadis JP80-MC...heavily modified, Convergent Audio JL-2 Black Path, Sony NS999 ES Modwright modded, full loom High Fidelity Ultimate cables, Rel S-5 sub, Stillpoints ultra and 5's, Shun Mook, Dalby footers, Critical Mass bases, Acoustic System Resonators, Magnum Dynalab Etude, Telefunkens throughout, assorted fuses, Furutech outlets, PurePower conditioner.

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      • #4
        Kcin, the devices in question alter the ground potential between components to eliminate or drastically reduce hum and RFI induced noise. By way of star grounding to a buss and changing the ground potential between components (usually with resistors). The concept is a simple one, esp for those with an EE background, its the execution that's in question and whether these devices should cost upwards of $40k

        Comment


        • kcin
          kcin commented
          Editing a comment
          oh yes I understand, just trying to justify why the $ is such with these units especially since they are passive,. Looking for experience or solid understanding for the materials and intellectual property- such that it is- to validate the asking dollars.

        • Rob
          Rob commented
          Editing a comment
          you and me both. You can't find a pic online to actually see what's in it, or not in it for that matter.

      • #5
        Originally posted by Rob View Post
        Kcin, the devices in question alter the ground potential between components to eliminate or drastically reduce hum and RFI induced noise. By way of star grounding to a buss and changing the ground potential between components (usually with resistors). The concept is a simple one, esp for those with an EE background, its the execution that's in question and whether these devices should cost upwards of $40k
        Exactly and I also feel at a certain price point the maker should have some built in
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • #6
          I was quite sceptical about grounding boxes. I already had a star grounding in place through my Ansuz power distributor. A close friend happens to be the Entreq distributor in my country and I had to opportunity to test their products on my own system for an extensive period of time. I tend to trust my ears. There was a tangible improvement.

          Comment


          • #7
            I tried a couple of them in my system, don't know if they did any of the things the manufacturers claim but I know I didn't like what they did to the sound. Heard them over at some client's homes too while they liked what the boxes did I came away with the same negative impression as in my own system.

            As far as value goes kcin it's high-end with pricing to match, all I can say is that plenty of people buy them and I haven't heard anyone complain so they must be priced right for their intended audience.

            david
            Last edited by david k; 05-08-2017, 07:34 PM. Reason: Added Emoji!
            Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
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            • siddh
              siddh commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi David....what did you find disliking?

            • david k
              david k commented
              Editing a comment
              Like most tweaks they add an obvious coloration.

              david

          • #8
            David you and I have gone crazy to get good sound and grounding. What most may not know is what you posted and I'll bet it goes by them. You did not mention hum. Having no hum does not mean it's great sound. Grounding effects sounds in our systems and has nothing to do with hum.
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
              David you and I have gone crazy to get good sound and grounding. What most may not know is what you posted and I'll bet it goes by them. You did not mention hum. Having no hum does not mean it's great sound. Grounding effects sounds in our systems and has nothing to do with hum.
              That's very true Al no hum is great but doesn't equal good sound specially when there are easy ways to cheat it out without improving the sound. I might be allergic or something but I have to admit that when it comes to things electrical audiophile brands aren't where I look...
              david
              Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
              Distribution: NEODIO

              Special Sales: van den Hul
              Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

              Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
              http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
              http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

              Comment

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