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  • Conventional Vacuum Record Cleaning Machines

    VPI Typhoon

    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue34/vpi_hw27.htm
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Is this a current review Myles or did you just decide to repost here? Either way a good topic. I'm a good friend of the V8 maker and I like what his unit does. OTOH Peter Lederman prefers to clean records the old fashioned way. What do you think?
    TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter matte & weight; Arcam R Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

    Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

    VTL 6.5 preamp Series II
    Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

    Piega C711 Loudspeakers

    Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

    Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator

    Shunyata Hydra 8; Shunyata AC Cords; Synergistic Research Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cord, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates & Blue Outlets, Furutech NCF Booster Brace, Audio Art Ref balanced ICs, MIT Oracle IC and Magnum Speaker Cables

    Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD1200s Headphones.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 1morerecord2clean View Post
      Is this a current review Myles or did you just decide to repost here? Either way a good topic. I'm a good friend of the V8 maker and I like what his unit does. OTOH Peter Lederman prefers to clean records the old fashioned way. What do you think?

      Wrote it a while back but thought might generate some posts about record cleaning!

      I prefer the ultrasonic machine. No conventional machine I've used gets the same result. However, some prefer to first clean with a vacuum machine and then finish off the cleaning process with a trip through the ultrasonic factory. For me, I love the ultrasonic machine for its simplicity: just turn it on, set the cleaning and drying times (usually just need to that one time), plop the record in and come back when the machine beeps (a little harder when using the KLaudio silencer). No scrubbing, worrying about if using the right fluid, etc. Only thing that could be better is loading up 7 LPs and coming back when the machine beeps.

      I know Harry Weisfeld hears the ultrasonic machines killing the top end but I hear just the opposite. And I'm not sure if Harry is using a KLaudio or something he put together. I'll also have to ask him the next time I see him if he's using pure water or adding something to the water (surfactants kill the sound and in particular the top end and transparency for most of them are very difficult to completely remove except with several water rinses). Bottom line, ultrasonic or vacuum, the choice of fluid is probably 50 pct of the equation, the vacuum pressure 40% and bidirectional cleaning 10%. (maybe exaggerated a little). But you get the point.
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post


        Wrote it a while back but thought might generate some posts about record cleaning!

        I prefer the ultrasonic machine. No conventional machine I've used gets the same result. However, some prefer to first clean with a vacuum machine and then finish off the cleaning process with a trip through the ultrasonic factory. For me, I love the ultrasonic machine for its simplicity: just turn it on, set the cleaning and drying times (usually just need to that one time), plop the record in and come back when the machine beeps (a little harder when using the KLaudio silencer). No scrubbing, worrying about if using the right fluid, etc. Only thing that could be better is loading up 7 LPs and coming back when the machine beeps.

        I know Harry Weisfeld hears the ultrasonic machines killing the top end but I hear just the opposite. And I'm not sure if Harry is using a KLaudio or something he put together. I'll also have to ask him the next time I see him if he's using pure water or adding something to the water (surfactants kill the sound and in particular the top end and transparency for most of them are very difficult to completely remove except with several water rinses). Bottom line, ultrasonic or vacuum, the choice of fluid is probably 50 pct of the equation, the vacuum pressure 40% and bidirectional cleaning 10%. (maybe exaggerated a little). But you get the point.
        Blasphemy! the term "simplicity" its not synonymous with cleaning records, its an arduous task requiring all manner of cleaning fluids and a complex methodology/process vetted by scholars and decades of experimentation.

        If you want a really clean record, IMO it cant be done with an ultrasonic machine alone but with a combination wet-vac or better yet, point nozzle (Monks/Loricraft). Bill Hart and I have discussed this at length and its alluded to on his blog The Vinyl Press. Bill will add his thoughts I'm sure, when I clear my plate I'll write up something about my set up with pics.
        Simon Yorke S10 | My Sonic Lab Eminent GL | AcousticPlan PhonoMaster | Wadia X32 | Innuous ZEN Mini Mk II | Valvet Soulshine2 | Linear Tube Audio ZOTL10 MkII | Avantgarde Uno Fino XD

        "One of the great challenges of this world: Knowing enough about a subject to think you are right, but not enough about the subject to know you're wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rob View Post

          Blasphemy! the term "simplicity" its not synonymous with cleaning records, its an arduous task requiring all manner of cleaning fluids and a complex methodology/process vetted by scholars and decades of experimentation.

          If you want a really clean record, IMO it cant be done with an ultrasonic machine alone but with a combination wet-vac or better yet, point nozzle (Monks/Loricraft). Bill Hart and I have discussed this at length and its alluded to on his blog The Vinyl Press. Bill will add his thoughts I'm sure, when I clear my plate I'll write up something about my set up with pics.

          I think a great deal depends on the quality of the records you are buying and then cleaning. If you buy garage store albums, do dumpster diving, all bets are off about their shape and they might have anything from peanut butter to God knows stuck to their their surface. Me, I only buy records in good shape and ergo a vacuum cleaning machine may not be needed.

          The KLaudio did what vacuum machines only hinted at: quieter records, more information, better extremes and an amazing abiltiy to make the instruments pop out of the backgrond. And I believe in having a high vacuum pump on your RCM since as the amount of fluid goes down, the hydrostatic tension goes up, and ergo it gets harder and harder to remove the last vestiges of the RCF.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • #6
            Love my VPI 16.5 with MoFi Super Wash cleaning fluid. I dumped the VPI record brush you use for applying the cleaning fluid to the LP because it would knock the slag off of a weld. I bought a toothbrush to use to clean the brush on the VPI that cleans the LP as well as the brush you apply the fluid with before I clean every LP.

            ‚ÄčLike Myles, I don't buy trashed LPs that become a restoration project so I have no need to go through heroic efforts to clean my LPs before I play them. No 10 stage cleaning process plus an exorcism goes on at my house. I clean each side of an LP before I play it which takes all of a minute. My LPs look like new and sound great if they ever sounded great.
            Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe Harry bought my friends V8 last year at Newport. As far as I know that's what he's using. I don't know if he gives the record a rinse on a 16.5 or not. Most people I know using the AD or the V8 do a rinse on a conventional RCM.
              TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter matte & weight; Arcam R Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

              Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

              VTL 6.5 preamp Series II
              Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

              Piega C711 Loudspeakers

              Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

              Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator

              Shunyata Hydra 8; Shunyata AC Cords; Synergistic Research Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cord, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates & Blue Outlets, Furutech NCF Booster Brace, Audio Art Ref balanced ICs, MIT Oracle IC and Magnum Speaker Cables

              Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD1200s Headphones.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by david k
                Does this count as conventional?Does this count as conventional?

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_396_1455145669147_836[/ATTACH]
                Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                ________________________________________

                -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Does this count as conventional?

                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	2210
                  Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
                  Distribution: NEODIO

                  Special Sales: van den Hul
                  Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

                  Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
                  http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by david k View Post
                    Does this count as conventional?

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]n2210[/ATTACH]

                    No but I'll take it!
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ha, another timely topic again! I just traded in my KL to a fellow Agoner for his ClearAudio Double Matrix RCM. I wanted to try a solutions based RCM with vacuum. I found I had to wash some LPs a number of times with the KL before the majority of clicks and pops went away. I am hoping an enzyme/vacuum based solution would work out better. I have a feeling I will need a combination of both though.

                      Maybe Bill will post his article about his recording cleaning workflow. It was his article that got me thinking about the right solution...

                      Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That machine has interested me since Robert Suchy showed it to me at CES. I'd be interested in hearing more about the Clearaudio.

                        What fluids are you using to clean? I did find the enzyme based cleaners did a better job at cleaning and removing pops and ticks than the earlier generation of RCFs did. But in my experience the US machine removed more pops and clicks. I guess again it comes down the starting point and chain of custody of the record.
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                        -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm using L'Art du Son right now, but I'm open to trying others. I also like the fact that fingerprints are cleaned up with the enzyme based cleaners. I hate fingerprint smudges on my records!
                          Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I use a Nitty Gritty 2.5Fi and Mofi Super Wash, but I first give it an initial manual clean ( 3-4 rotations) on a Spin Clean.
                            Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

                            Comment


                            • Steve Lefkowicz
                              Steve Lefkowicz commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I really miss my 2.5FI. It did a great job cleaning.

                          • #15
                            My cleaning station:

                            Click image for larger version

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ID:	2412
                            Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

                            Comment


                            • Bill Hart
                              Bill Hart commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Johnny- you baking them too?

                            • Johnny Vinyl
                              Johnny Vinyl commented
                              Editing a comment
                              LOL! Not quite, but maybe I should slip in a warped one. Haha! I chose the space as it's the most comfortable and efficient, especially given my back issues.
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