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  • Record Cleaning Machines

    Anyone here using any machines others than the VPI, Clearaudio, Loricraft, Audio Deske or KLaudio?

    One machine that has interested me is the Hannl Aragon RCM from Germany. Anyone with any experience?
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    I saw the Hannl in action and met the designer at Newport a few years ago, I can't attest to its cleaning abilities but the design/construction was impressive.

    This is a new point nozzle type machine to hit the market, If it cleans as good as the baby monks or loricraft its could be a winner:

    http://www.pristinevinyl.com/index.p...-44/vivac-rcs2
    Simon Yorke S10 | My Sonic Lab Eminent GL | AcousticPlan PhonoMaster | Wadia X32 | Innuous ZEN Mini Mk II | Valvet Soulshine2 | Linear Tube Audio ZOTL10 MkII | Avantgarde Uno Fino XD

    "One of the great challenges of this world: Knowing enough about a subject to think you are right, but not enough about the subject to know you're wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Comment


    • Johnny Vinyl
      Johnny Vinyl commented
      Editing a comment
      I'd buy that Vivac just for it's looks! Gorgeous! (I wouldn't....just sayin')

  • #3
    I have the Loricraft but would like a KL Audio machine.

    Comment


    • #4
      I'm perfectly happy with my NG 2.5Fi.
      Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

      Comment


      • #5
        Click image for larger version

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        I'm fond of HannL machines, I own the Micro and its my go to machine......I like the variable vacuum speed and platter speed along with no static build up no matter how many revolutions you spin and vac. Not a fan of the Aragon model because of the fluid tank and built in cleaning brush. I much rather apply the fluid manually and scrub manually as sometimes you need a bit more or less scrubbing pressure......also machines with fluid tanks are open systems, not good for enzyme type cleaners, they become less effective if not kepted in a sealed container until your ready to use. As always YMMV
        Last edited by A/V Solutions; 02-28-2016, 01:21 PM.
        Jeff Whitlock
        A/V Solutions

        www.avsolutionsca.com

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by A/V Solutions View Post
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]n5401[/ATTACH]

          I'm fond of HannL machines, I own the Micro and its my go to machine......I like the variable vacuum speed and platter speed along with no static build up no matter how many revolutions you spin and vac. Not a fan of the Aragon model because of the fluid tank and built in cleaning brush. I much rather apply the fluid manually and scrub manually as sometimes you need a bit more or less scrubbing pressure......also machines with fluid tanks are open systems, not good for enzyme type cleaners, they become less effective if not kepted in a sealed container until your ready to use. As always YMMV
          Jeff: Other than the manual scrubbing and the enzyme cleaner storage, what are the other differences between the micro and the top of the line models?
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

            Jeff: Other than the manual scrubbing and the enzyme cleaner storage, what are the other differences between the micro and the top of the line models?
            Difference between the Aragon and other HannL modles like the Micro, Mera etc is the Aragon has the auto cleaning brush, fluid storage tank and auto applies fluid to the cleaning brush with a push of a button, other than that they all do the same regarding the other features.....like platter speed, vacuum speed, static dis-charge and cost. The top models don't clean any better than the lessor cost models. If you really think about it vac type record cleaning machines are really not cleaning machines, there fluid removal machines, nothing more. IMO the variable platter speed, variable vacuum and static dis-charge are key features to remove fluid....you really don't need the excessive vacuum strength and fairly fast rpm of the platter, this just adds to the static issues......

            Jeff Whitlock
            A/V Solutions

            www.avsolutionsca.com

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by A/V Solutions View Post

              Difference between the Aragon and other HannL modles like the Micro, Mera etc is the Aragon has the auto cleaning brush, fluid storage tank and auto applies fluid to the cleaning brush with a push of a button, other than that they all do the same regarding the other features.....like platter speed, vacuum speed, static dis-charge and cost. The top models don't clean any better than the lessor cost models. If you really think about it vac type record cleaning machines are really not cleaning machines, there fluid removal machines, nothing more. IMO the variable platter speed, variable vacuum and static dis-charge are key features to remove fluid....you really don't need the excessive vacuum strength and fairly fast rpm of the platter, this just adds to the static issues......
              Thanks Jeff. Interesting. But still you need to find a balance between platter speed and vacuum with the Micro?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
              -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
              -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                Thanks Jeff. Interesting. But still you need to find a balance between platter speed and vacuum with the Micro?
                Not really......when you hit the vacuum button the speed of the platter is reduced automatically by 50% and also the vacuum suction is reduced 50% and from there you can manually increase or decrease platter and vacuum suction if you choose to. I find the reduction is perfect for both. When you reduce the vacuum suction by about 50% there is much less temp change at the pick-up tube slot and the reduction of platter speed means much longer vacuum time with in one platter revolution. Its been mentioned numerous times not to spin and vacuum more than a few times or you get static build up.....but its the temp change at the pick-up tube slot that initiates the static charge more so than the pick-up in contact with the record.

                A modification to help vac type machines with out vac speed adjustment is drill a hole on top towards the back of the pick-up tube, then thread a mini air valve like what you would use on a fish tank, slightly open it up when you vacuum as to not draw as much air through the slot of the pick-up tube......you'll find you can spin and vac several times with much less static build up. Make sure you drill the hole farthest away and close to the down part of the pick-up tube assy.
                Jeff Whitlock
                A/V Solutions

                www.avsolutionsca.com

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by A/V Solutions View Post

                  Not really......when you hit the vacuum button the speed of the platter is reduced automatically by 50% and also the vacuum suction is reduced 50% and from there you can manually increase or decrease platter and vacuum suction if you choose to. I find the reduction is perfect for both. When you reduce the vacuum suction by about 50% there is much less temp change at the pick-up tube slot and the reduction of platter speed means much longer vacuum time with in one platter revolution. Its been mentioned numerous times not to spin and vacuum more than a few times or you get static build up.....but its the temp change at the pick-up tube slot that initiates the static charge more so than the pick-up in contact with the record.

                  A modification to help vac type machines with out vac speed adjustment is drill a hole on top towards the back of the pick-up tube, then thread a mini air valve like what you would use on a fish tank, slightly open it up when you vacuum as to not draw as much air through the slot of the pick-up tube......you'll find you can spin and vac several times with much less static build up. Make sure you drill the hole farthest away and close to the down part of the pick-up tube assy.
                  OK I get where you are coming from. I was thinking about the surface tension going up as the amount of fluid goes down and needing more vacuum to get the last vestiges of RCF off the album.

                  I like that mod.
                  Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                  Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                  ________________________________________

                  -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                  -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                  -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                  -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                  -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                  -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                  -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                  -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                  -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                  -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    This was my first ultrasonic record cleaning machine and was the inspiration for the current KLaudio cleaner.
                    Last edited by Ki Choi; 06-09-2016, 05:46 PM.

                    Comment


                    • MylesBAstor
                      MylesBAstor commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Dionne Warwick?

                    • Ki Choi
                      Ki Choi commented
                      Editing a comment
                      It was choice between Pat Boone or Dionne. If anyone needed washing, it would have been Pat but...

                  • #12
                    I have owned the Hannl for around 5-6 years after my Nitty Gritty finally gave up the ghost after 10+ years. I then bough the KLA and had that for 12 months now. I had planned selling the Hannl. after reading all the gushing reiews, yours included Myles

                    The KLA is excellent and i use it on all my new vinyl, however it really does not do the tough cleaning very well or if a bit of scrubbing is required. So the Hannl has stayed and won't be going anywhere. T
                    he Hannl is extremely quiet for a vacuum RCM and built like a tank - as is the KLA, in fact its quieter than the KLA. With the Nitty Gritty I used to wear ear muffs - not so the Hannl - I leave the room with the KLA mostly.


                    Last edited by Metamatic; 06-10-2016, 05:45 AM.

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                    • #13
                      I use the KLAudio cleaner and I really love the simplicity of it!!! All of my vinyl is either new or in excellent condition so I don't have to scrub, so it works great in my opinion...

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        This is perhaps a bit off topic, but I wanted to relate my recent experiences dealing with the importer of the Audiodesk Digital vinyl cleaner. I received one of the units for review a little over three years ago and was impressed enough with the performance to purchase the review sample. For three years the unit was relatively trouble free; however, all good things come to an end. Several weeks ago I began having intermittent problems with the pump (sometimes it failed to move water into the reservoir). I contacted Ultra Systems who tried to troubleshoot the unit over the phone. Apparently with the early units some of the 24 volt power supplies over time did not deliver the rated power which effected the pump. As it turned out this was not the problem, so I sent the unit to Ultra Systems for repair. Unfortunately the problem was the pump. The early units secured the pumps with glue necessitating a return to Germany for repair. Given that the unit was out of warranty, this would have meant paying all shipping and repair costs and probably a substantial delay in getting the unit back. In lieu of repairing the unit, Ultra Systems offered me two other options, 1) replacement of the unit with the current version at a fraction of the cost of a new unit or 2) replacement with the PRO version for an additional 20%. Both of these machines were brand new with a full warranty and completely modular so could be repaired in the US. Given that I had used the existing machine for over three years, I felt that this was a very fair resolution.

                        On a related topic, if you have an Audiodesk and use the supplied detergent/surfactant, always rinse the records with distilled water for best results. I had the chance to compare the same records after cleaning first on the Audiodesk, followed with a distilled water rinse, then on the KL. In some instances, there was an audible difference in favor of the KL, in others there was none. This seemed like an inconsistent result. In further thinking about why this might be the case, I noticed that the records that were improved on the KL were ones which I had only subjected to 1.5 minutes of cleaning on the AD (one beep). The KL uses a 4.5 minute cycle. The records where there was no improvement were ones which had gone through 4.5 minutes on the AD (three beeps). I need to do additional listening but pass this along for what it may be worth.
                        Last edited by fcrowder; 09-15-2016, 08:37 AM.
                        Rockport Sirius turntable, Lyra Atlas SL cartridge, Audio Note M9 SE Phono stage, Audio Note M10 (Signature) linestage, EMM Labs TX2/DA2 digital, Audio Note Balanced Kegon amps, EMM Labs MTRX amps, Acapella Triolons, Jorma Prime and Odin 2 cables, Stage 3 Kraken power cords, HB Marble Powerslave, Finite Elemente Pagode Reference stands and Cerabases, Halcyonics active isolation bases, HRS Equipment stand, Stillpoints Ultra 6 footers, Furitech cable isolators and plugs, Loricraft and Audiodesk vinyl cleaners, Yamaha CT7000 Tuner.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                          Anyone here using any machines others than the VPI, Clearaudio, Loricraft, Audio Deske or KLaudio?

                          One machine that has interested me is the Hannl Aragon RCM from Germany. Anyone with any experience?
                          The one that I hear the most about, particularly from my friends in the UK, is the Keith Monks. I use an ancient Clearaudio Matrix that I recently serviced and, so far, it's the only RCM that I've used that can increase a record grade from, say, VG+ to NM-. I tried a bunch of cleaning solutions and settled on the Disc Doctor Quickwash.

                          Transrotor Rossini Turntable w/Jelco SA-750DB
                          Audio Note Io Gold Cart. w/AN-S9 SUT
                          Audio Note CDT-Four Transport/Woo WDS-1 DAC
                          Ayre QX-5 Twenty Dig. Hub & 13” MacBook Pro w/Roon w/Melco N1A NAS
                          AN OTO Phono SE Signature Int. Amp w/AN-E SEC Silver Speakers w/Murata Super Tweeters
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                          PSAudio P10 AC Regen./Equi=Tech Bal. Transformer
                          Harmonic Technology, Audio Note, Kondo Sound Labs, Stealth, AQ Cables
                          Woo GES w/Sfax SR-507 Headphones

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