What are you using in your phono stage or critical area of your system? I have been using Tele's for years and it may be time to try something different. Must be dead quiet and accurate...
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Which 12AX7
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Unfortunately NOTHING has ever replaced Teles! I fear a lot of younger people have never heard the "tube sound" we all took for granted.Bob's room 615 562-4346
Artists are the gatekeepers of truth! - Paul Robeson
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All depends on the balance of your system.
Also remember, you are not going to throw just any old tube in your phono section. You want as quiet and free from microphonics tube as possible and ergo suggest you get them from a reputable dealer that tests their tubes like Kevin Deal www.upscaleaudio.com (and has phono quality, Mark www.tubemuseum.org (or tubemuseum on eBay), Andy Baumann www.vintagetubeservices.com (caution he may be a little difficult but is very knowledgeable) or Brent Jessie www.audiotubes..com. Preferably a Amplitex or Maximatcher tube tester. Kevin actually has a pretty nice new selection of 12AX7s too.
Also I'd always buy from a reputable dealer but you just never know if the tubes you are buying are really say a MullardTelefunken, etc. made for them by someone else. You want someone who knows the coding.
Teles are good but every tube has their own sound. I've used them and they can be a little lean sounding but very extended, clean and resolving. Of course, ECC803s are a rare breed and will set you back $1000-1500 each. And who knows if they really are NOS.
Mullards (and their different types such as CV4004) are classic tube sound with fuller, big midrange, little ill defined in the low end and softer up top.
Amperex's might be a middle ground between the two above and I'd look into them.
GEs always sound a little bright and hard to me.
I was actually surprised but the new Svetlana 12AX7s that Nick Doshi now includes with his phonostage are darn good.
Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
________________________________________
-Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
-Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
-Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
-Doshi V3.0 phonostage
-VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
-VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
-Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
-Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
-Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
-Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.
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Ok guys pretty much what I expected and I agree with you all on the tele's. I did however read something a long time ago that until recently had forgotten about, I read that too much of a good thing can expose the weakness. In other words my phono stage use 4 12AX7's and up to this point I have always run 4 tele's. Now tele's may not really have a weakness but, if they do or have a possible weak area. It could be exposed by having 4 of the exact same tubes in there. I am gonna try a couple different high quality tube brands in the secondary position to see if this pans out. My best and quietest pair will stay in the primary position as always. In fact I ordered another matched pair from Brent this morning!!! WOW!!! I haven't bought tubes in over 5 years, my how the prices have gone up!!!
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Originally posted by jcmusic View PostOk guys pretty much what I expected and I agree with you all on the tele's. I did however read something a long time ago that until recently had forgotten about, I read that too much of a good thing can expose the weakness. In other words my phono stage use 4 12AX7's and up to this point I have always run 4 tele's. Now tele's may not really have a weakness but, if they do or have a possible weak area. It could be exposed by having 4 of the exact same tubes in there. I am gonna try a couple different high quality tube brands in the secondary position to see if this pans out. My best and quietest pair will stay in the primary position as always. In fact I ordered another matched pair from Brent this morning!!! WOW!!! I haven't bought tubes in over 5 years, my how the prices have gone up!!!
Comment
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Originally posted by jcmusic View PostOk guys pretty much what I expected and I agree with you all on the tele's. I did however read something a long time ago that until recently had forgotten about, I read that too much of a good thing can expose the weakness. In other words my phono stage use 4 12AX7's and up to this point I have always run 4 tele's. Now tele's may not really have a weakness but, if they do or have a possible weak area. It could be exposed by having 4 of the exact same tubes in there. I am gonna try a couple different high quality tube brands in the secondary position to see if this pans out. My best and quietest pair will stay in the primary position as always. In fact I ordered another matched pair from Brent this morning!!! WOW!!! I haven't bought tubes in over 5 years, my how the prices have gone up!!!
IIRC, you can save money with Brent if you go with say the Dynaco, etc. Tele tubes too (as long as they have a diamond on the bottom). Others may be more in the know but supposedly the red tipped Ulm manufactured Teles were the best.
Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
________________________________________
-Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
-Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
-Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
-Doshi V3.0 phonostage
-VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
-VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
-Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
-Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
-Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
-Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.
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You can buy ready made adapters which convert a WE 420A / 5755 to a 12AX7. You can also buy 2 for 1 adapters, which convert a pair of 6SF5-GT to a single 12AX7, the 6SF5-GT has 110% of the gain of a 12AX7. Finally you can buy adapters, which convert a 5687 to a 12AX7. The 5687 was designed by TungSol in 1952 to be a superior audio tube. Audio Note's current DAC's all use the 5687.
With quality 12AX7 getting scarce and loads of counterfeits around the WE 420A maybe a better alternative to the 12AX7.
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I have had a number of mini tubes in both the drive position of CAT amp and Jadis pre/phono. Tele's always make the final cut. Always. I am greatly grateful I was compulsive and bought a boatload back in the 90's and early 00's.Avalon Time, Walker Proscenium, Koetsu Coralstone, Air Tight PC-1 Supreme, Goldfinger Statement, Dalby record weight, Kondo KSL-SFz step-up, Jadis JP80-MC...heavily modified, Convergent Audio JL-2 Black Path, Sony NS999 ES Modwright modded, full loom High Fidelity Ultimate cables, Rel S-5 sub, Stillpoints ultra and 5's, Shun Mook, Dalby footers, Critical Mass bases, Acoustic System Resonators, Magnum Dynalab Etude, Telefunkens throughout, assorted fuses, Furutech outlets, PurePower conditioner.
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Can a 5751 or a 12AT7 be used in place of a 12AX7? I know the gain factor is lower but what about in a circuit where you have the extra gain to spare? Just a thought?Marty
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Originally posted by nc42acc View PostCan a 5751 or a 12AT7 be used in place of a 12AX7? I know the gain factor is lower but what about in a circuit where you have the extra gain to spare? Just a thought?
The only was to be sure is to check with the manufacturer because the 5751 isn't a drop in replacement for a 12AX7. Those old RCA 5751 windmill getters sold at one time by Gold Aero years ago were the bomb! Sounded wonderful in my cj equipment.Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
________________________________________
-Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
-Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
-Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
-Doshi V3.0 phonostage
-VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
-VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
-Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
-Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
-Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
-Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.
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i was just chatting with George Counnas from Zesto Audio about this the other day. He had a lot of nice things to say about the JJ 12ax7 803 long plate gold pin tubes. I use standard JJs in my primary power amp, and thought i'd try these next.
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-ECC803-GLD-JJSteve Lefkowicz
Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
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Analog 1: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 10X5 MK.II Low Output, iPhono2/iPowerX; Analog 2: Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Talisman S, iFi iPhono.
Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 26, Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio), iFi NEO iDSD, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2, Audioquest Jitterbug.
Electronics: DIY passive line-stage with TKD 10K pot, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso
Speakers: Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7
Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Audioquest Evergreen
Speaker cables: Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet
Digital cables: Aural Symphonics Digital Standard xxv USB, Belkin PureAV.
Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan rack, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 600 ohm, DT770 Studio 80 ohm, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More Triple Driver IEM
http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...ounding-system
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Originally posted by nc42acc View PostCan a 5751 or a 12AT7 be used in place of a 12AX7? I know the gain factor is lower but what about in a circuit where you have the extra gain to spare? Just a thought?
Comment
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Originally posted by Steve Lefkowicz View Posti was just chatting with George Counnas from Zesto Audio about this the other day. He had a lot of nice things to say about the JJ 12ax7 803 long plate gold pin tubes. I use standard JJs in my primary power amp, and thought i'd try these next.
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-ECC803-GLD-JJMyles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
________________________________________
-Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
-Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
-Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
-Doshi V3.0 phonostage
-VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
-VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
-Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
-Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
-Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
-Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.
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Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
He must be having better luck with them than I did.Steve Lefkowicz
Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
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Analog 1: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 10X5 MK.II Low Output, iPhono2/iPowerX; Analog 2: Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Talisman S, iFi iPhono.
Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 26, Tidal HiFi and Qobuz Studio), iFi NEO iDSD, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2, Audioquest Jitterbug.
Electronics: DIY passive line-stage with TKD 10K pot, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso
Speakers: Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7
Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Audioquest Evergreen
Speaker cables: Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet
Digital cables: Aural Symphonics Digital Standard xxv USB, Belkin PureAV.
Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan rack, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 600 ohm, DT770 Studio 80 ohm, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More Triple Driver IEM
http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...ounding-system
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