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  • Voshkod 6N23P (Rocket logo)

    In recent years I tried various ECC88 (6922) tubes in my GAT (NOS Telefunken, Amperex PQ White label, EAT Diamond, Phillips, JJ, ...) but this one is really something special. It's a 1995 production and it sounds really nice. Very quiet, non-microphonic, lively, dynamic and extended in both extremes, without obvious colorations. Bass is tight and strong, midrange and treble is clean, open and airy. Some say this tube is also very durable in amps that like to "eat" tubes for breakfast and so far (after approx. 200 hours) they proved to be the best choice for me. They are not expensive...yet (about $40-50/matched pair) and I'm not sure that older vintages are really better. I tried a pair of 71' vintage but it was very noisy and microphonic. Well, maybe it was only that pair...
    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Marcus; 03-12-2016, 06:05 AM.
    Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

  • #2
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post
    In recent years I tried various ECC88 (6922) tubes in my GAT (NOS Telefunken, Amperex PQ White label, EAT Diamond, Phillips, JJ, ...) but this one is really something special. It's a 1995 production and it sounds really nice. Very quiet, non-microphonic, lively, dynamic and extended in both extremes, without obvious colorations. Bass is tight and strong, midrange and treble is clean, open and airy. Some say this tube is also very durable in amps that like to "eat" tubes for breakfast and so far (after approx. 200 hours) they proved to be the best choice for me. They are not expensive...yet (about $40-50/matched pair) and I'm not sure that older vintages are really better. I tried a pair of 71' vintage but it was very noisy and microphonic. Well, maybe it was only that pair...
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]n7176[/ATTACH]
    Great info! The new cj 6922s just don't last worth a darn. I never thought of the GAT being a tube eater like say an Audible Illusions preamplifier; but lately the cj supplied 6922 last maybe 500 hours. Did you get these 6922s from Kevin Deal or another source. I know he has some "special" 6H23s for those difficult to satisfy preamplifiers.

    I bought some others to try like the EAT ECC88s, Tele ECC7308/188, etc. but never got around to trying them in my GAT. I think Lloyd tried a few other tubes in his GAT also and ended up Mullards? Think some of that preference might also be attributable to source too eg. digital vs. analog.

    Now the new GAT will be using a different tube.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have tried the 6H23p-EB and they sound very good, not sure how they compare to the 6N23P rockets. They seem to be very hard to find.
      Marty

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

        Great info! The new cj 6922s just don't last worth a darn. I never thought of the GAT being a tube eater like say an Audible Illusions preamplifier; but lately the cj supplied 6922 last maybe 500 hours. Did you get these 6922s from Kevin Deal or another source. I know he has some "special" 6H23s for those difficult to satisfy preamplifiers.

        I bought some others to try like the EAT ECC88s, Tele ECC7308/188, etc. but never got around to trying them in my GAT. I think Lloyd tried a few other tubes in his GAT also and ended up Mullards? Think some of that preference might also be attributable to source too eg. digital vs. analog.

        Now the new GAT will be using a different tube.
        I bought these tubes on eBay, Kevin doesn't stock them. I agree that 6922 EH suck but I also think that majority of NOS suck or are at least not as good as some want us to believe. NOS can be the right choice in some systems but in a well balanced modern high-end system? No way, too colored in one way or the other. Telefunken's seem to be the most neutral but they are so unreliable and don't last long - so they are useless.

        It will be interesting to try these new PCC88 tube cj is putting in the S2 upgrade...
        Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Marcus View Post

          I bought these tubes on eBay, Kevin doesn't stock them. I agree that 6922 EH suck but I also think that majority of NOS suck or are at least not as good as some want us to believe. NOS can be the right choice in some systems but in a well balanced modern high-end system? No way, too colored in one way or the other. Telefunken's seem to be the most neutral but they are so unreliable and don't last long - so they are useless.

          It will be interesting to try these new PCC88 tube cj is putting in the S2 upgrade...
          I'm curious what PCC88 they are using. There are a lot of Teles still around as well as some Mullards and Mullard types like Pope, etc.

          Real problem is that much of what people call NOS is NOC. They get away with murder calling pulls NOS. Those tubes may measure well but they have no get up and go.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just a guess. Mullard perhaps? My ART monos (only two months old) have Mullard M8080 in the driver stage. So...
            Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

            Comment


            • #7
              I own the Tele 6922s from kevin at Upscale and they are truly excellent...the Mullards i found were actually quite hard sounding, not quite as detailed/airy but incredibly long lasting and with EAT Tube dampers sound a lot more like Teles than i was expecting. I like them both. Superior in terms of how long they have lasted so far than the Amperexes and others that i have tried...and WAAAY longer lasting than the CJ stock EH tubes which we stopped using within about 3 months after buying the CJ GAT in 2009.
              SOURCE: Zanden 4-Box Digital
              AMP: CJ GAT2 + Gryphon Mephisto Stereo
              SPEAKER: Wilson X1/SLAMMS + Velodyne DD18+

              CABLE: TA Opus + PAD 25th + Sablon GCUber
              POWER: 7 Dedicated Lines Furutech + Burmester 948 + NordostQX4
              ISOLATION: Under: HRS+Stillpoints+Auralex Top: HRS+Artesania+Entreq+EAT+90kg Mass
              GROUND/SHIELD/TUBE: Tripoint Troy Sig Thor+Entreq Atlantis / Receivus+Everest+Wrap / Amperex+Mullard
              ROOM: Stillpoints Apertures+Acoustic Underlay

              HEADPHONE: Sennheiser 650+Arcam rHead+Apogee Groove

              Comment


              • #8
                Marcus - there are a few of us CJ GAT owners (Pradeep/Sunnyboy1956, Shane/XV1/Turntable, Myles of course, you and me). Are you contemplating the Series 2 upgrade which Myles has just ordered? Have you heard anything about it by any chance?
                SOURCE: Zanden 4-Box Digital
                AMP: CJ GAT2 + Gryphon Mephisto Stereo
                SPEAKER: Wilson X1/SLAMMS + Velodyne DD18+

                CABLE: TA Opus + PAD 25th + Sablon GCUber
                POWER: 7 Dedicated Lines Furutech + Burmester 948 + NordostQX4
                ISOLATION: Under: HRS+Stillpoints+Auralex Top: HRS+Artesania+Entreq+EAT+90kg Mass
                GROUND/SHIELD/TUBE: Tripoint Troy Sig Thor+Entreq Atlantis / Receivus+Everest+Wrap / Amperex+Mullard
                ROOM: Stillpoints Apertures+Acoustic Underlay

                HEADPHONE: Sennheiser 650+Arcam rHead+Apogee Groove

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LL21 View Post
                  Marcus - there are a few of us CJ GAT owners (Pradeep/Sunnyboy1956, Shane/XV1/Turntable, Myles of course, you and me). Are you contemplating the Series 2 upgrade which Myles has just ordered? Have you heard anything about it by any chance?
                  Hi Lloyd,

                  Absolutely! I've heard that the S2 upgrade is a big sonic step up for the GAT. My "source" says improvements are overal but most important are stronger bass with better extension and improved dynamics. Kind of expected considering a beefed up power supply...
                  Last edited by Marcus; 03-14-2016, 08:12 AM.
                  Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow! Thanks, Marcus! Great to hear from you and look forward to investigating the Series 2 further. Have inquired here.
                    SOURCE: Zanden 4-Box Digital
                    AMP: CJ GAT2 + Gryphon Mephisto Stereo
                    SPEAKER: Wilson X1/SLAMMS + Velodyne DD18+

                    CABLE: TA Opus + PAD 25th + Sablon GCUber
                    POWER: 7 Dedicated Lines Furutech + Burmester 948 + NordostQX4
                    ISOLATION: Under: HRS+Stillpoints+Auralex Top: HRS+Artesania+Entreq+EAT+90kg Mass
                    GROUND/SHIELD/TUBE: Tripoint Troy Sig Thor+Entreq Atlantis / Receivus+Everest+Wrap / Amperex+Mullard
                    ROOM: Stillpoints Apertures+Acoustic Underlay

                    HEADPHONE: Sennheiser 650+Arcam rHead+Apogee Groove

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I used to roll 6922's- I always liked the high grade vintage Tele for the holographic quality, the Mullards tended toward classic 'golden era' tube romantic- there was a high grade Siemens tube that was very linear but a little too spare sounding for me. I think part of it may be the circuit and overall tonal balance of the system, and, as I learned trying to roll telephony tubes for my Allnic, stuff that says Mullard 'made in england' was actually made in one case by Amperex in the States. Not counterfeit, but (as I think MEP pointed out on a forum long ago), these companies treated the product back in the old days as fungible product. The fact that another factory or company made the product, branded for a competitor, was not uncommon. I still have old tube boxes from tubes I bought when these things weren't costly, maybe a little more than a generic tube, but not the crazy money now sought for alleged NOS. Yet, I cling to my NOS tubes. I figure, you get miles (Myles?) and worth the price if you are already nutty enough to worry about fancy accessories for everything else. I'm still blown away by the rectifier rolls I've done.
                      New tubes- no idea. I loaded my Lamm amps with a fresh complement from Vlad a few months ago- and the factory Sovtek for the 12AX7 was just so sterile sounding- I put the vintage Tele back in (the only tube I roll in the amp) and voila- voicing back, plus the punch and bite of new driver, power tube, etc.
                      It's like fixing Weber carburetors - you can definitely change things, but not always for the better....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bill Hart View Post
                        I used to roll 6922's- I always liked the high grade vintage Tele for the holographic quality, the Mullards tended toward classic 'golden era' tube romantic- there was a high grade Siemens tube that was very linear but a little too spare sounding for me. I think part of it may be the circuit and overall tonal balance of the system, and, as I learned trying to roll telephony tubes for my Allnic, stuff that says Mullard 'made in england' was actually made in one case by Amperex in the States. Not counterfeit, but (as I think MEP pointed out on a forum long ago), these companies treated the product back in the old days as fungible product. The fact that another factory or company made the product, branded for a competitor, was not uncommon. I still have old tube boxes from tubes I bought when these things weren't costly, maybe a little more than a generic tube, but not the crazy money now sought for alleged NOS. Yet, I cling to my NOS tubes. I figure, you get miles (Myles?) and worth the price if you are already nutty enough to worry about fancy accessories for everything else. I'm still blown away by the rectifier rolls I've done.
                        New tubes- no idea. I loaded my Lamm amps with a fresh complement from Vlad a few months ago- and the factory Sovtek for the 12AX7 was just so sterile sounding- I put the vintage Tele back in (the only tube I roll in the amp) and voila- voicing back, plus the punch and bite of new driver, power tube, etc.
                        It's like fixing Weber carburetors - you can definitely change things, but not always for the better....
                        That's why one should become proficient in understanding the tubes codes if they are really into NOS tubes, And watch out for counterfeits. I understand there have even been counterfeit Teles found and they were almost perfect copies. Only give away is that the logo on the outside of the tube didn't rub off. So the replica was actually too good!
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                        -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                          That's why one should become proficient in understanding the tubes codes if they are really into NOS tubes, And watch out for counterfeits. I understand there have even been counterfeit Teles found and they were almost perfect copies. Only give away is that the logo on the outside of the tube didn't rub off. So the replica was actually too good!
                          Great- rub off the logo and you HAD a genuine telefunken tube.
                          Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

                            Great- rub off the logo and you HAD a genuine telefunken tube.

                            Yup the Telefunken logo would many times rub off in the box. (Yes I know there's something wrong sayin' that! )
                            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                            ________________________________________

                            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                            -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post


                              Yup the Telefunken logo would many times rub off in the box. (Yes I know there's something wrong sayin' that! )
                              well, at least weve still got the diamond molded into the glass on the base......
                              Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                              Comment

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