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  • 1000 hrs At Most?

    Murphy's Law for audio. System always sounds best just before something is going to die.

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    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART300 40th Anniversary monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 and Thoress Mk. 2 phonostages; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/12-inch Fat Boy, SAT LM-12 arm, Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, SPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Kind of like Icarus wings.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
      Murphy's Law for audio. System always sounds best just before something is going to die.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	20180805_220910.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.54 MB ID:	93985
      simply remove and replace, a blind man could do it (except for the biasing part ) try replacing a power transistor in a SS amp, thats if you can still get the device and then it has to be precisely matched! Yeah, tubes are a cake-walk by comparison. Ill take that all-day-long
      How Do You Beat Audiophile Nervosa?

      Step Number 1: Upgrade your music collection first. If you do it correctly that should keep you busy in perpetuity.

      Comment


      • #4
        Some designers, like Keith Herron with his preamps, run their tubes lightly so they can last for decades, even leaving them on all the time. Larry
        Analog- VPIClassic3-3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeroMono, 2xAmpex ATR-102,Doshi3.0 BottleheadPhonoPre,Herron VTPH-2A
        Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,Mykerinos,PacMicroModel2
        Dig Play-mchNADAC, LampiGG, Roon, HQP, Oppo105
        Electronics-Herron 360Pre,CJ MET1mchPre, Cary2A3monoamps
        Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
        Other-512Engineer/Marutani Symmetrical Power, ArtKelmGround1, AudioDiskVinylCleaner,AirTightRecordFlat, Scott Rust Interconnects,
        Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1KR2Rtapes,50TBrips

        Comment


        • #5
          This tube just lost its vacuum. It's not a *natural* tube death.
          SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

          Comment


          • Garth
            Garth commented
            Editing a comment
            you mean this tube sucks

          • MylesBAstor
            MylesBAstor commented
            Editing a comment
            More like breathed out one last time.

        • #6
          Originally posted by mep View Post
          This tube just lost its vacuum. It's not a *natural* tube death.
          Mark, Lampizator recommends turning on and off their DACs just once a day to minimize the changes in temperature of the tube and the differential expansion of the glass and base for that very problem of accelerated loss of vacuum and early tube death. I do the same for my other tube equipment, except my Herron pre and phono pre which I leave on all the time.

          Larry
          Analog- VPIClassic3-3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeroMono, 2xAmpex ATR-102,Doshi3.0 BottleheadPhonoPre,Herron VTPH-2A
          Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,Mykerinos,PacMicroModel2
          Dig Play-mchNADAC, LampiGG, Roon, HQP, Oppo105
          Electronics-Herron 360Pre,CJ MET1mchPre, Cary2A3monoamps
          Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
          Other-512Engineer/Marutani Symmetrical Power, ArtKelmGround1, AudioDiskVinylCleaner,AirTightRecordFlat, Scott Rust Interconnects,
          Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1KR2Rtapes,50TBrips

          Comment


          • #7
            What did the CJ do when the tube quit. Did you blow a fuse? Any loud noise or speaker damage? Just curious how they are designed to handle it. I biosed my tubes over the weekend and found a driver failing just 10 weeks old. I'm glad I'm a little freekish over checking them fairly often.
            Pure Audio Project Trio 10/Voxativ, Transition Audio 811A Triode monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI, Custom TT with Vertere tone arm, Allnic H1201, Denon 103R Midas Saphire with line contact diamond. Mojo Audio CAT Server with remote Illuminati power supply, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC. Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
              What did the CJ do when the tube quit. Did you blow a fuse? Any loud noise or speaker damage? Just curious how they are designed to handle it. I biosed my tubes over the weekend and found a driver failing just 10 weeks old. I'm glad I'm a little freekish over checking them fairly often.
              In the old days, CJ was known to run their tubes close to full blast. Not sure what they do these days. Correct me if I am mistaken. My CJ MET-1 which has six tubes for the six channels has run through tubes faster than any of my other tube equipment. Nice sound however.

              Larry
              Analog- VPIClassic3-3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeroMono, 2xAmpex ATR-102,Doshi3.0 BottleheadPhonoPre,Herron VTPH-2A
              Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,Mykerinos,PacMicroModel2
              Dig Play-mchNADAC, LampiGG, Roon, HQP, Oppo105
              Electronics-Herron 360Pre,CJ MET1mchPre, Cary2A3monoamps
              Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
              Other-512Engineer/Marutani Symmetrical Power, ArtKelmGround1, AudioDiskVinylCleaner,AirTightRecordFlat, Scott Rust Interconnects,
              Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1KR2Rtapes,50TBrips

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by astrotoy View Post

                Mark, Lampizator recommends turning on and off their DACs just once a day to minimize the changes in temperature of the tube and the differential expansion of the glass and base for that very problem of accelerated loss of vacuum and early tube death. I do the same for my other tube equipment, except my Herron pre and phono pre which I leave on all the time.

                Larry
                Larry-Is that exactly what Lampi said? The base of tubes is outside the vacuum envelope. Light bulbs usually burn out when you turn them on or turn them off. Constant switching on and off of vacuum tubes can cause tube failure, but it won't be because of the tube losing vacuum unless you are removing and inserting the tube each time you turn the gear off and the base is loose and you crack the tube because your are twisting a loose base against the glass which is the vacuum envelope.

                The advice to not being in the habit of constant turning on and off of vacuum tube gear is sound.
                SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

                Comment


                • astrotoy
                  astrotoy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Mark, I'll check on the exact quote. Could well be that I misunderstood. Definitely said to keep on during the day, and only turn off at the end of your listening day.

              • #10
                Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                Murphy's Law for audio. System always sounds best just before something is going to die.
                Tube amplifier aficionado's know it is a fact of life that tube failures are part and parcel of owning and enjoying vacuum tube gear. Often there is no rhyme or reason for early tube failure other than the simple fact that vacuum tubes are made one at a time by hand and prone to the inevitable variances that come with the process. I have had power tubes that lasted in excess of 4000 hours and still tested reasonable strong. I have also had power tube failures in less than 500 hours, although not often thank goodness. I have never had a power tube loose vacuum but I have had several small tubes (12AX7's and 12AT7's) loose vacuum over the many years I have enjoyed tube preamplifiers and tube power amplifiers.

                One thing I have learned is having spare tubes on hand is a good thing. It is also advantageous to own a quality tube tester. I currently run a total of 16 Gold Lion KT88's in my pair of McIntosh MC2301 power amplifiers, 8 in each amp, along with 4 Siemens ECC801S (12AT7) driver tubes, 2 in each amp. I have 16 spare Electro-Harmonix KT88's and 16 spare Gold Lion KT88's in my tube locker. I also keep a number of spare 12AT7, 12AX7, and 12AU7 tubes (Gold Lion, Siemens, Telefunken, Philips, Mullard, Tung-Sol), and 4 spare Sylvania 7591 output tubes for my McIntosh MA230 integrated amplifier. My McIntosh C2300 tube preamp in the living room system uses 6 12AX7's, 4 in its phono stages and 2 in the line stage output. I test all tubes and maintain dated spreadsheets of each tube's plate current and transconductance. This allows me to compare older tubes numbers with new tubes.

                I last tested the tubes in my MC2301 power amplifiers in January. The output tubes had 1780 hours on them at that time and all 16 compared favorably against the numbers of a brand new KT88. McIntosh does not operate their output tubes hard so they tend to last quite a long time. I am expecting to get 5000 hours from this present set of 16 KT88's. The two 12AT7 driver tubes in each amplifier should give me 8000 hours.

                No doubt about it, the care and feeding of tube amplifiers and preamplifiers requires a bit more attention than solid state gear. For me the rewards of sonic excellence and the rich organic presentation make the extra effort worth it.
                Dan

                STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE with SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
                LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC452, MR85, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

                Comment


                • #11


                  Originally posted by astrotoy View Post

                  In the old days, CJ was known to run their tubes close to full blast. Not sure what they do these days. Correct me if I am mistaken. My CJ MET-1 which has six tubes for the six channels has run through tubes faster than any of my other tube equipment. Nice sound however.

                  Larry
                  I rarely had issues with cj output tubes. Other than age. I'd say this had little to do with how hard they were running the amp. Losing vacuum is a tube manufacturing issue.

                  The only cj tubes that gave me issues were the nuvistors, 5GK5s and 6H30s-EBs. The latter went statically and glowed violet when failing. Never had an ounce of issues with the 6H30-DRs.

                  The KT120s in the cj amps actually run pretty conservatively. I also wouldn't say they run the KT150 hard either. I've gone over the numbers with Jeff.
                  Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                  Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                  ________________________________________

                  Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART300 40th Anniversary monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 and Thoress Mk. 2 phonostages; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/12-inch Fat Boy, SAT LM-12 arm, Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, SPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
                    What did the CJ do when the tube quit. Did you blow a fuse? Any loud noise or speaker damage? Just curious how they are designed to handle it. I biosed my tubes over the weekend and found a driver failing just 10 weeks old. I'm glad I'm a little freekish over checking them fairly often.
                    Nothing other than some distortion and it sounded like the system momentarily quit. Like as if you had RF cut into the system. Then it played again. And no, the fuse did not blow. No other damage.
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART300 40th Anniversary monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 and Thoress Mk. 2 phonostages; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/12-inch Fat Boy, SAT LM-12 arm, Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, SPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                    Comment


                    • Kingrex
                      Kingrex commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Excellent glad to hear. I'm happy CJ makes solid equipment that can handle the unfortunate. I like them. And they are based in VA.

                  • #13
                    Originally posted by jdandy View Post

                    Tube amplifier aficionado's know it is a fact of life that tube failures are part and parcel of owning and enjoying vacuum tube gear. Often there is no rhyme or reason for early tube failure other than the simple fact that vacuum tubes are made one at a time by hand and prone to the inevitable variances that come with the process. I have had power tubes that lasted in excess of 4000 hours and still tested reasonable strong. I have also had power tube failures in less than 500 hours, although not often thank goodness. I have never had a power tube loose vacuum but I have had several small tubes (12AX7's and 12AT7's) loose vacuum over the many years I have enjoyed tube preamplifiers and tube power amplifiers.

                    One thing I have learned is having spare tubes on hand is a good thing. It is also advantageous to own a quality tube tester. I currently run a total of 16 Gold Lion KT88's in my pair of McIntosh MC2301 power amplifiers, 8 in each amp, along with 4 Siemens ECC801S (12AT7) driver tubes, 2 in each amp. I have 16 spare Electro-Harmonix KT88's and 16 spare Gold Lion KT88's in my tube locker. I also keep a number of spare 12AT7, 12AX7, and 12AU7 tubes (Gold Lion, Siemens, Telefunken, Philips, Mullard, Tung-Sol), and 4 spare Sylvania 7591 output tubes for my McIntosh MA230 integrated amplifier. My McIntosh C2300 tube preamp in the living room system uses 6 12AX7's, 4 in its phono stages and 2 in the line stage output. I test all tubes and maintain dated spreadsheets of each tube's plate current and transconductance. This allows me to compare older tubes numbers with new tubes.

                    I last tested the tubes in my MC2301 power amplifiers in January. The output tubes had 1780 hours on them at that time and all 16 compared favorably against the numbers of a brand new KT88. McIntosh does not operate their output tubes hard so they tend to last quite a long time. I am expecting to get 5000 hours from this present set of 16 KT88's. The two 12AT7 driver tubes in each amplifier should give me 8000 hours.

                    No doubt about it, the care and feeding of tube amplifiers and preamplifiers requires a bit more attention than solid state gear. For me the rewards of sonic excellence and the rich organic presentation make the extra effort worth it.
                    Tempered burn-in helps a lot in extending tube life. And remember these are tested tubes from cj run in an actual circuit to separate the wheat from the chaff.

                    You'd also need to get a new tube tested like the Maxi-Tester for the KT-120 and 150 tubes.

                    The only small signal tubes that ever lost vacuum were some 12AX7s tubes bought in the 80s from a company in Oregon. Supposedly ARC used these (Indian???) tubes at one time. One tube actually cracked. Never had that happen before or since. The only other tube that lost vacuum was a JJ tube. (that I have had no luck with save for the ECC99s in the Doshi tape stage.)

                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers, cj ART300 40th Anniversary monoblock Amplifiers; cj GAT preamplifier Series 2; Doshi V3.0 and Thoress Mk. 2 phonostages; VPI Vanquish turntable/12-inch 3D tonearm/12-inch Fat Boy, SAT LM-12 arm, Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges; Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads/Doshi V3.0 tape stage run balanced; Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords. Stillpoint Aperture panels, SPod Magico feet, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC. Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks; Audiodharma Cable Cooker; Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                    Comment


                    • jdandy
                      jdandy commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Myles.......I have the MaxiMatcher 2 power tube tester and the MaxiPreamp 2 tube tester. Both of these digital tube testers are reliable, built well, and easy to use. It is enjoyable to have the proper tools that allow me to care for my tube preamps and power amps.
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