Minus K Platform

[kcin]

Any experience here with these isolation bases that are routinely used in industry or for scientific endeavours? This is the last thing I want to do for my vinyl front -end.

A friend , if you can believe it, gave me a Goldmund Reference stand, where by the table was abandoned by the owner ([email protected]$*@&^$) with just the touch logic controls left on the top plate. That top plate is about 2" thick; constructed of solid brass (hate to think of buying a piece like that) . So I have good mass loading to the concrete floor with Finite Elemente Cera-ball feet - but looking for that last bit.

I am kind of stuck on the Minus K over Symposium or SRA etc... it appears the science makes more sense to me. Anyone?

Thanks.

[mep]

Andre will hopefully jump in here and give you his opinions based on his experience.

[Joe Pittman]

Check out the Herzan thread at WBF.

[Guest]

Air, ground and internal energies are the sources of unwanted vibration. Does the minus K absorb vibration from the table itself or is it primarily meant to prevent ground-sourced vibration from transmission into the table? Does minus K make a unit designed to address the resonance frequency of your table?

I suspect you will hear the argument: If it's good enough for microscopes by Jove it's good enough for my turntable.

[Joe Pittman]

Check out the Doehmann Helix 1 video.

[user510]

enjoyed that video. I just wish Mikey could get a tripod to keep his video camera steady. Re: the Helix 1, finally someone did it. They stuffed a minus-k inside the turntable. Just a matter of time.
-Steve

[user510]

Any experience here with these isolation bases that are routinely used in industry or for scientific endeavours? This is the last thing I want to do for my vinyl front -end.

A friend , if you can believe it, gave me a Goldmund Reference stand, where by the table was abandoned by the owner ([email protected]$*@&^$) with just the touch logic controls left on the top plate. That top plate is about 2" thick; constructed of solid brass (hate to think of buying a piece like that) . So I have good mass loading to the concrete floor with Finite Elemente Cera-ball feet - but looking for that last bit.

I am kind of stuck on the Minus K over Symposium or SRA etc... it appears the science makes more sense to me. Anyone?

Thanks.

I've got one.
See image above. Model 150 BM-1. The 150 means that it can support a max of 150 lbs.
I've been using it for the past 3 years. No problems. It definitely looks like a piece of lab equipment....because that is what it is.

The thing to keep in mind with turntable supports is there are different kinds of platforms for different kinds of jobs.
Minus-K isolates from seismic vibrations. The kind of vibes that move the floor and shake the walls. Foot fall, traffic on the street outside.

IT also helps with airborne sound waves. re: isolates from acoustic feedback.

What it doesn't do: is dampen internal vibes that are created by the TT drive train. For that task you need an additional device, like the Symposium shelf.

So really what you want is a Minus-k --plus-- the Symposium shelf to park your turntable. re: park the Symposium shelf on the Minus-k and then the turntable over the Symposium shelf. Then you've got it done.

-Steve

[user510]

right. For that photo I neglected to have the level set correctly. Reason is that the level seems to drift over time. It doesn't just stay set. One is always checking the level before playing a record. Or so it seems. it seems to hold its setting long enough for playing several Lps, but does require attention.
-Steve

[Socrates]

Ah Ok S--Yes it can budge--I've owned them you realise they "work" at their Maximum weight-yours 150 lbs or near?

Cannot judge the Tare of your setup from the pics but have you that amount in/under the TT as shown?--its just I found with my Tables I had to

bolster the bases/add to the Platform to bring the weight to the top limit for optimum performance.

Nice setup by the way!

Soc

[user510]

I'm around 120 - 130 lbs in that photo. Plus there are some lead plates under the plinth that aren't visible from that angle. I too have found that the closer that setup gets toward its maximum, the closer it gets to its rated 1/2 hz oscillation. Still, its working well now.

[Metamatic]

The Minus K platforms actually isolate. The Symposium and SRA do not, they just change the tonal frequency.

If you can afford, the Minus K is easily the best option amongst the 3.

[kcin]

The Minus K platforms actually isolate. The Symposium and SRA do not, they just change the tonal frequency.

If you can afford, the Minus K is easily the best option amongst the 3.

I've got the heavy Goldmund stand with 2" thick brass plate + Symposium shelf + Finite Elemente Ceraball feet. I likely will be ordering the Minus K after the room tuning Stillpoint Aperture panels arrive and get experimented with next week.

I'm not sure that any device will help greatly with resonant artifacts of the table drive unless part of a completely tuned system. The Brinkmann is pretty good on that front.

[Guest]

The Minus K platforms actually isolate. The Symposium and SRA do not, they just change the tonal frequency.

If you can afford, the Minus K is easily the best option amongst the 3.

I've used Symposium and SRA. I agree with what you said about Symposium, particularly the Rollerblocks, but experience with several SRA products says it does not change tonal frequency, unless you mean it reduces tonal distortion. Minus K is good for what it does and can yield some improvement, but it's limited to the function it is designed to perform, i.e. isolation for ground sourced energy, energy that might mechanically travel to its client from whatever it sits on.

[MylesBAstor]

A little off topic but not off topic. Are real isolation platforms/isolation devices nowadays mandatory for anyone with big speakers with significant low bass response? Or if lucky, putting the turntable in a different room.

[user510]

A little off topic but not off topic. Are real isolation platforms/isolation devices nowadays mandatory for anyone with big speakers with significant low bass response? Or if lucky, putting the turntable in a different room.

I'd imagine this would be room dependent. The isolation platforms being seismic isolation devices. If the powerful speakers can produce low frequency sound waves with enough force to flex the walls and ceiling, those same sound waves would surely have an effect on the exposed stylus / record groove interface. Particularly at dynamic peaks. But will these sound waves move the floor enough to shake ( vibrate ) the turntable stand?

disclaimer: I'm not a scientist. So this must be conjecture on my part.
-Steve

[MylesBAstor]

I'd imagine this would be room dependent. The isolation platforms being seismic isolation devices. If the powerful speakers can produce low frequency sound waves with enough force to flex the walls and ceiling, those same sound waves would surely have an effect on the exposed stylus / record groove interface. Particularly at dynamic peaks. But will these sound waves move the floor enough to shake ( vibrate ) the turntable stand?

disclaimer: I'm not a scientist. So this must be conjecture on my part.
-Steve

I would also add that the type of floor--solid, suspended or somewhere in between--is probably where we need to start and then go to the speakers. As far as the room goes, one would also have to consider table placement and whether the table is situated in a node or peak. (something that may not get enough attention.) Or where in relationship the turntable is placed in relationship to the speakers as we often don't have much say in that sometime. Behind. In front to the side. Off to the side. Etc. Etc. And maybe even how the table is designed--with or without plinth--too. But I don't know of anyone who hasn't experienced an sonic improvement from using some sort of isolation device whether it be an Air Force One, SME, VPI, etc.

[user510]

plus one to all of the above. There was definitely a discernible improvement when I implemented the minus-k in my system.

[Guest]

A little off topic but not off topic. Are real isolation platforms/isolation devices nowadays mandatory for anyone with big speakers with significant low bass response? Or if lucky, putting the turntable in a different room.

Are needs solely a function of having low bass response speakers? Where are the resonance frequencies of the table and its components? Perhaps outside the low bass range? How much does the platform know about what's sitting on it?

[Beaur]

I've had one for a few years under my TT. I have also used them at work and can tell you they are great at removing most low-frequency vibration. The only caution I would give is that they are best suited for use with a TT that distributes weight fairly evenly. If your TT has an especially heavy motor off to one side you may need to add some weight to balance the platform. Depending on need/budget you could also look into their "footers" that you could put under your stand and isolate the entire stand instead of just the TT. Their bench top units can hold up to 1000 lbs depending on model but you will most likely need a plate to extend the top unless your table is made from Uranium and is compact. They do custom work also, I am sure the sky is the limit depending on your specs and willingness to part with some hard earned money!

[user510]

http://www.theanalogdept.com/minus_k.htm

I had neglected to post a link to my review of the minus-k in my previous posts. So here it is now. It covers my overall impressions of it, including setting up. Getting the load center of mass well centered over the minus-k...which is one requirement.

Here's one of the photos from that review:

-Steve