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  • Minus K Platform

    Any experience here with these isolation bases that are routinely used in industry or for scientific endeavours? This is the last thing I want to do for my vinyl front -end.

    A friend , if you can believe it, gave me a Goldmund Reference stand, where by the table was abandoned by the owner ([email protected]$*@&^$) with just the touch logic controls left on the top plate. That top plate is about 2" thick; constructed of solid brass (hate to think of buying a piece like that) . So I have good mass loading to the concrete floor with Finite Elemente Cera-ball feet - but looking for that last bit.

    I am kind of stuck on the Minus K over Symposium or SRA etc... it appears the science makes more sense to me. Anyone?

    Thanks.

    Click image for larger version

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ID:	40579
    Phono: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
    Brinkmann Balance & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas Lamda, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
    Amps: Custom Direct Drive, Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2. Bedini 25/25
    Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
    Speakers: Beveridge Model 3 Direct Drive amps, REL S/2 x 2, Quad ESL pair
    Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

  • #2
    Andre will hopefully jump in here and give you his opinions based on his experience.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

    Comment


    • #3
      Check out the Herzan thread at WBF.
      Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
      Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
      Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
      Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
      Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
      Digital: Lumin Network Player with Lumin NAS
      Cables: Genesis Advanced Technologies/Absolute Fidelity Interface Interconnects, Speaker, Phono and Power
      A/C Power: Extensive System Upgrades, Sub-panel w/hard-wired power cables, and IsoTek Super Titan Passive Power Conditioning for Amplifiers
      Accessories: Custom Acrylic Equipment Stands, Klaudio Ultrasonic RCM

      Comment


      • #4
        Air, ground and internal energies are the sources of unwanted vibration. Does the minus K absorb vibration from the table itself or is it primarily meant to prevent ground-sourced vibration from transmission into the table? Does minus K make a unit designed to address the resonance frequency of your table?

        I suspect you will hear the argument: If it's good enough for microscopes by Jove it's good enough for my turntable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Check out the Doehmann Helix 1 video.

          Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
          Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
          Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
          Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
          Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
          Digital: Lumin Network Player with Lumin NAS
          Cables: Genesis Advanced Technologies/Absolute Fidelity Interface Interconnects, Speaker, Phono and Power
          A/C Power: Extensive System Upgrades, Sub-panel w/hard-wired power cables, and IsoTek Super Titan Passive Power Conditioning for Amplifiers
          Accessories: Custom Acrylic Equipment Stands, Klaudio Ultrasonic RCM

          Comment


          • user510
            user510 commented
            Editing a comment
            enjoyed that video. I just wish Mikey could get a tripod to keep his video camera steady. Re: the Helix 1, finally someone did it. They stuffed a minus-k inside the turntable. Just a matter of time.
            -Steve

        • #6
          Originally posted by kcin View Post
          Any experience here with these isolation bases that are routinely used in industry or for scientific endeavours? This is the last thing I want to do for my vinyl front -end.

          A friend , if you can believe it, gave me a Goldmund Reference stand, where by the table was abandoned by the owner ([email protected]$*@&^$) with just the touch logic controls left on the top plate. That top plate is about 2" thick; constructed of solid brass (hate to think of buying a piece like that) . So I have good mass loading to the concrete floor with Finite Elemente Cera-ball feet - but looking for that last bit.

          I am kind of stuck on the Minus K over Symposium or SRA etc... it appears the science makes more sense to me. Anyone?

          Thanks.

          Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0863 (2).JPG
Views:	297
Size:	12.6 KB
ID:	40579
          I've got one.
          See image above. Model 150 BM-1. The 150 means that it can support a max of 150 lbs.
          I've been using it for the past 3 years. No problems. It definitely looks like a piece of lab equipment....because that is what it is.

          The thing to keep in mind with turntable supports is there are different kinds of platforms for different kinds of jobs.
          Minus-K isolates from seismic vibrations. The kind of vibes that move the floor and shake the walls. Foot fall, traffic on the street outside.

          IT also helps with airborne sound waves. re: isolates from acoustic feedback.

          What it doesn't do: is dampen internal vibes that are created by the TT drive train. For that task you need an additional device, like the Symposium shelf.

          So really what you want is a Minus-k --plus-- the Symposium shelf to park your turntable. re: park the Symposium shelf on the Minus-k and then the turntable over the Symposium shelf. Then you've got it done.

          -Steve




          webmaster at The Analog Dept.
          system list:Classe' CAP 151 integrated, Carver TX-11b Tuner, NHT 2.9 Speakers, Thorens TD124 ( plus other Thorens models), Otari MX-5050 BII-2 R2R, Jolida JD100 cd player, ML-9600 digital recorder

          Comment


          • user510
            user510 commented
            Editing a comment
            right. For that photo I neglected to have the level set correctly. Reason is that the level seems to drift over time. It doesn't just stay set. One is always checking the level before playing a record. Or so it seems. it seems to hold its setting long enough for playing several Lps, but does require attention.
            -Steve

          • Socrates
            Socrates commented
            Editing a comment
            Ah Ok S--Yes it can budge--I've owned them you realise they "work" at their Maximum weight-yours 150 lbs or near?

            Cannot judge the Tare of your setup from the pics but have you that amount in/under the TT as shown?--its just I found with my Tables I had to

            bolster the bases/add to the Platform to bring the weight to the top limit for optimum performance.

            Nice setup by the way!

            Soc

          • user510
            user510 commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm around 120 - 130 lbs in that photo. Plus there are some lead plates under the plinth that aren't visible from that angle. I too have found that the closer that setup gets toward its maximum, the closer it gets to its rated 1/2 hz oscillation. Still, its working well now.

        • #7
          The Minus K platforms actually isolate. The Symposium and SRA do not, they just change the tonal frequency.

          If you can afford, the Minus K is easily the best option amongst the 3.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Metamatic View Post
            The Minus K platforms actually isolate. The Symposium and SRA do not, they just change the tonal frequency.

            If you can afford, the Minus K is easily the best option amongst the 3.
            I've got the heavy Goldmund stand with 2" thick brass plate + Symposium shelf + Finite Elemente Ceraball feet. I likely will be ordering the Minus K after the room tuning Stillpoint Aperture panels arrive and get experimented with next week.

            I'm not sure that any device will help greatly with resonant artifacts of the table drive unless part of a completely tuned system. The Brinkmann is pretty good on that front.


            Phono: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
            Brinkmann Balance & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas Lamda, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
            Amps: Custom Direct Drive, Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2. Bedini 25/25
            Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
            Speakers: Beveridge Model 3 Direct Drive amps, REL S/2 x 2, Quad ESL pair
            Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by Metamatic View Post
              The Minus K platforms actually isolate. The Symposium and SRA do not, they just change the tonal frequency.

              If you can afford, the Minus K is easily the best option amongst the 3.
              I've used Symposium and SRA. I agree with what you said about Symposium, particularly the Rollerblocks, but experience with several SRA products says it does not change tonal frequency, unless you mean it reduces tonal distortion. Minus K is good for what it does and can yield some improvement, but it's limited to the function it is designed to perform, i.e. isolation for ground sourced energy, energy that might mechanically travel to its client from whatever it sits on.

              Comment


              • #10
                A little off topic but not off topic. Are real isolation platforms/isolation devices nowadays mandatory for anyone with big speakers with significant low bass response? Or if lucky, putting the turntable in a different room.
                Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                ________________________________________

                -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                  A little off topic but not off topic. Are real isolation platforms/isolation devices nowadays mandatory for anyone with big speakers with significant low bass response? Or if lucky, putting the turntable in a different room.
                  I'd imagine this would be room dependent. The isolation platforms being seismic isolation devices. If the powerful speakers can produce low frequency sound waves with enough force to flex the walls and ceiling, those same sound waves would surely have an effect on the exposed stylus / record groove interface. Particularly at dynamic peaks. But will these sound waves move the floor enough to shake ( vibrate ) the turntable stand?

                  disclaimer: I'm not a scientist. So this must be conjecture on my part.
                  -Steve
                  webmaster at The Analog Dept.
                  system list:Classe' CAP 151 integrated, Carver TX-11b Tuner, NHT 2.9 Speakers, Thorens TD124 ( plus other Thorens models), Otari MX-5050 BII-2 R2R, Jolida JD100 cd player, ML-9600 digital recorder

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by user510 View Post

                    I'd imagine this would be room dependent. The isolation platforms being seismic isolation devices. If the powerful speakers can produce low frequency sound waves with enough force to flex the walls and ceiling, those same sound waves would surely have an effect on the exposed stylus / record groove interface. Particularly at dynamic peaks. But will these sound waves move the floor enough to shake ( vibrate ) the turntable stand?

                    disclaimer: I'm not a scientist. So this must be conjecture on my part.
                    -Steve
                    I would also add that the type of floor--solid, suspended or somewhere in between--is probably where we need to start and then go to the speakers. As far as the room goes, one would also have to consider table placement and whether the table is situated in a node or peak. (something that may not get enough attention.) Or where in relationship the turntable is placed in relationship to the speakers as we often don't have much say in that sometime. Behind. In front to the side. Off to the side. Etc. Etc. And maybe even how the table is designed--with or without plinth--too. But I don't know of anyone who hasn't experienced an sonic improvement from using some sort of isolation device whether it be an Air Force One, SME, VPI, etc.
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                    -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                    -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                    Comment


                    • user510
                      user510 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      plus one to all of the above. There was definitely a discernible improvement when I implemented the minus-k in my system.

                  • #13
                    Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                    A little off topic but not off topic. Are real isolation platforms/isolation devices nowadays mandatory for anyone with big speakers with significant low bass response? Or if lucky, putting the turntable in a different room.
                    Are needs solely a function of having low bass response speakers? Where are the resonance frequencies of the table and its components? Perhaps outside the low bass range? How much does the platform know about what's sitting on it?

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      I've had one for a few years under my TT. I have also used them at work and can tell you they are great at removing most low-frequency vibration. The only caution I would give is that they are best suited for use with a TT that distributes weight fairly evenly. If your TT has an especially heavy motor off to one side you may need to add some weight to balance the platform. Depending on need/budget you could also look into their "footers" that you could put under your stand and isolate the entire stand instead of just the TT. Their bench top units can hold up to 1000 lbs depending on model but you will most likely need a plate to extend the top unless your table is made from Uranium and is compact. They do custom work also, I am sure the sky is the limit depending on your specs and willingness to part with some hard earned money!
                      Turntable: - 1. Fairchild 750/OMA slate plinth
                      2. Analog Engineering AE-2008 MinusK support.
                      Tonearm: 1. Schroder Custom
                      2. Schick 12"
                      3. Abis SA-1
                      Cartridge: Miyajima Kansui and Premium BE Mono
                      PhonoPre: AprilSound LR, EMIA Strain Gauge, EMIA silver SUT
                      CD: Wadia 860x
                      Server: Innuos Zen Mini Mk3
                      DAC: Computer Audio Design 1543 Mk2
                      Preamp: Bent Audio TAP-X w silver autoformers
                      Amplifier: AprilSound SET50 monoblocks
                      Speaker: Pioneer PAX-30C

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        http://www.theanalogdept.com/minus_k.htm

                        I had neglected to post a link to my review of the minus-k in my previous posts. So here it is now. It covers my overall impressions of it, including setting up. Getting the load center of mass well centered over the minus-k...which is one requirement.

                        Here's one of the photos from that review:

                        -Steve
                        Last edited by user510; 01-23-2017, 06:57 PM. Reason: add photo
                        webmaster at The Analog Dept.
                        system list:Classe' CAP 151 integrated, Carver TX-11b Tuner, NHT 2.9 Speakers, Thorens TD124 ( plus other Thorens models), Otari MX-5050 BII-2 R2R, Jolida JD100 cd player, ML-9600 digital recorder

                        Comment

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