RMAF 2016: Analog Tape: The Ultimate Format

[MylesBAstor]

[Rob]

Awesome! thanks for posting this.

[[email protected]]

Really great seminar - thanks for posting, Myles.

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks buddy! They unfortunately didn't show the room but it was a packed house. Lots of energy and excitement!!! Most I've encountered yet for tape!

[Frederik Carøe]

So 4 years ago, I met Myles, started lifting weights...

Yesterday, I saw this video. Today, I bought a Studer deck.

Damn it, Myles - stop getting me into stuff ; )

[MylesBAstor]

At least it's healthy stuff! 😺

Glad to to have you aboard!



For those not familiar with Frederik, he is the manufacturer of those awesome Duelend caps and other audio accessories.

[Michael Bönninghoff]

Thanks Myles, thats great !

Best regards

Michael

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks Myles, thats great !

Best regards

Michael

Thanks Michael and welcome to board!

Why don't you properly introduce yourself to the members!

[JCOConnell]

thanks for posting? hell, thanks for recording it!

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks go to Marjorie Baumert (and her team) who runs RMAF and videos all the seminars! 😄

[Audiocrack]

May I ask the experienced tape users the following question: how do you store your wonderful tapes? Do you need ideally a room with a fixed temperature? If so, what temperature is advisable?

If such a (dedicated) room is not available such as in my case, what are in your view the most important precautions you need to take to preserve this (pretty expensive) software?

I am asking these questions because I am just starting to collect a bunch of high quality tapes. I have 20 at the moment but tomorrow about 100-110 master tapes will be delivered.

[Greg Beron]

I would not worry

[Greg Beron]

Over the past 10 years I have shipped tapes all over the world doing the audio show circuit.
I've shipped in the heat of the summer and in frigid winters, in rain and shine these tapes were in a non climate controlled truck sometimes for a solid week if shipped from Virginia to California.

The tape boxes have been X-Rayed who knows how many times.
I have played these tapes non stop for 3 or 4 days straight at countless shows!
You know how many tapes have been damaged or degraded..... 0.

[Audiocrack]

Over the past 10 years I have shipped tapes all over the world doing the audio show circuit.
I've shipped in the heat of the summer and in frigid winters, in rain and shine these tapes were in a non climate controlled truck sometimes for a solid week if shipped from Virginia to California.

The tape boxes have been X-Rayed who knows how many times.
I have played these tapes non stop for 3 or 4 days straight at countless shows!
You know how many tapes have been damaged or degraded..... 0.

Thanks much Greg. Apparently your tapes (or maybe tapes in general?) are pretty robust. Nevertheless I thought it wise to ask my questions to experienced tape users because I found the following quote:

"Storing magnetic tape in a clean, controlled environment is the most important precaution you can take to extend the life of the media. High temperatures, high humidity, and the presence of dust and corrosive elements in the air all affect the physical components that make up magnetic tape and can result in loss of readable data through decreased magnetic capability and deterioration of the binder or backing of the tape. Too low temperatures should also be avoided. In some cases, temperatures lower than 32° F (0° C) may actually harm the media and shorten, rather than extend, life expectancies by risking exudation of the lubricant from the binder, which may clog heads. Rapid temperature changes are also undesirable as they introduce stresses in the wound tape pack. Tapes that are to be played in an environment different from the storage environment should be allowed to acclimate to the new temperature.

Temperature and Relative Humidity


For years tape manufacturers have recommended that you store your tapes in a cool, dry place. In Section 2: What Can Go Wrong with Magnetic Tape?, the reasons behind this dictum were discussed in terms of the chemistries of the tape components: Binder hydrolysis is dependent on the moisture content of the tape, and lower humidity results in lower rates of hydrolysis. Furthermore, this reaction will proceed more slowly at lower temperatures. The latter is also true for the magnetic pigments - they will degrade more slowly at lower temperatures. Finally, to reduce unnecessary stresses on the wound tape that could result in deformation of the backing, a limited variation in temperatures and humidities is recommended. (See Figure 6.)

Storage at high temperatures ( > 74° F; > 23° C) increases tape pack tightness. This results in distortion of the tape backing and an increase in permanent dropouts as wound-in debris is forced into the tape magnetic layer. Many layers of tape before and after the debris can be affected by impressions of the debris. Layer to layer adhesion, known as tape blocking, also can result after long term storage at elevated temperatures.

Storage at high humidity ( > 70% RH) results in increased degradation of the binder as a result of the higher moisture content of the tape pack. High humidities will also cause increased tape pack stresses as the tape absorbs moisture from the air and expands, causing distortion of the tape backing and an increase in permanent dropouts.

Fungal growth is also possible at high humidities and temperatures. Molds can live off the binder polymer and added components. This is yet another cause of binder breakdown in high humidities. Hairy growths at the edges of the tape are a sign of mold. The spores that are produced on this fuzz can get onto the tape surface and cause many dropouts.

Changes in both temperature and humidity can also cause mistracking problems on helical scan recordings (See Section 2.4: Format Issues: Helical versus Longitudinal Scan Recording). Substrates will expand or shrink with changing temperature and humidity just as metals do in heat or cold. The substrate films are not completely balanced in their reaction to these changes in temperature and humidity. In other words, they stretch and shrink differently in length and width directions. This causes a change in the angle of the recorded helical scan tracks. Most of these changes are recoverable by returning to a temperature and humidity close to the one at which the tape was recorded. However, heat can also cause premature aging of the substrate in the form of nonrecoverable shrinking and stretching."

Are these kind of comments/concerns over the top?

[astrotoy]

I think the main concern is for poor storage for a long period of time, years not days or a few weeks. Greg's comments are about tapes exposed to more extreme conditions for a week or less. Most of the old tapes that I have purchased have been in quite good shape (even though they were 40 to 60 years old (almost all of these were 7.5ips 4 track tapes), many which appear to not have been played for many years. However, I have purchased tapes of that vintage that have mode or other evil looking (and smelling!) stuff on or in them. So poor storage conditions can make a big difference. The recent 15ips 2 track tapes are all pretty new (Tape Project which is about the oldest of all the modern tapes - just celebrated its 10th birthday.

Larry

Larry

[rockitman]

Not an issue with the current formulation of modern RTR tape. New tape does not shed or need to be baked. It is not affected by humid environments within reason.

[Greg Beron]

Yes you guys are right the new tape is pretty stable stuff and different in both age and tape formula to something from the 1960's or 1950's.
Of course common sense says that if you are putting a tape up for 50 or 60 years it would be best to store it in a climate controlled environment.

However my point was that for the reasonable future the new-generation master tape copies you will buy should outlast us all.
In 50 / 60 years we'll have gone to that big audio room in the sky.....

[Audiocrack]

Thanks for all your comments. Today a (former) Dutch recording engineer will visit me. He recorded with various Telefunken M15 tapedecks (I am using the same machine) for several Dutch evangelistic broadcast/television stations (such as the EO and KRO) as from the seventies many classical concerts. For a very long time these tapes were professionally stored.

I visited him earlier and he gave me five of his mastertapes. They included inter alia artist like Trevor Pinnock, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Andras Schiff and the Concertgebouw orchestra. After listening to these tapes I have decided to buy all of his remaining tapes (about 120-130).

If I understand you guys correctly tapes dating back to the seventies and onwards can be preserved well if you take normal precautions (as with vinyl) and a temperature regulated room is maybe advisable but not absolutely necessary.

Btw, he recorded all the classical music pieces on tapes with a short length (38) and simultaneously with a longth length (19). The former remained at the Dutch broadcast/television stations and the latter he kept for himself. So I buy from him the tapes with an hour plus music on them. And I am wondering: is in your view the difference in (audio) quality between 19 and 38 tapes significant?

[Tapetech]

And I am wondering: is in your view the difference in (audio) quality between 19 and 38 tapes significant?

Yes, the difference is big. You can hear an improvement in transient response at 15 ips (vs 7.5 ips).

7.5 ips can still sound very good of you have a very high quality transport (low wow/flutter) and use half track format.

As far as storage, 60F to 70F is recommended temp and 40 to 60 is recommended humidity. That is pretty easy to do. I would also do air filtration for mold.

[Audiocrack]

Yes, the difference is big. You can hear an improvement in transient response at 15 ips (vs 7.5 ips).

7.5 ips can still sound very good of you have a very high quality transport (low wow/flutter) and use half track format.

As far as storage, 60F to 70F is recommended temp and 40 to 60 is recommended humidity. That is pretty easy to do. I would also do air filtration for mold.

Thanks, Tapetech.