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  • How Times Change

    Remember the days when software was rarer than hen's teeth and reel-to-reel tape enthusiast would buy anything they could get their hands on?

    Over breakfast one morning at Axpona we were talking about reel-to-reel tape and the subject of buying software came up. One person remarked that he would only buy exceptional, not average sounding tapes, in part because of cost and in part because there's a greater quantity and variety of tapes now available. Who would have thought tape would reach this point?
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
    -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

  • #2
    Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
    Remember the days when software was rarer than hen's teeth and reel-to-reel tape enthusiast would buy anything they could get their hands on?

    Over breakfast one morning at Axpona we were talking about reel-to-reel tape and the subject of buying software came up. One person remarked that he would only buy exceptional, not average sounding tapes, in part because of cost and in part because there's a greater quantity and variety of tapes now available. Who would have thought tape would reach this point?
    Tape is really starting to grow legs now and new machines coming into the marketplace will help to strengthen the growth.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

    Comment


    • #3
      I still feel that the non-classical offerings are limited via commercial channels. Chad's stuff and the tape project titles are great but $450 per album is still a lot. Maybe that's where the price point is going to settle.
      Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio V3 Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS; Durand Telos and SME 3012R Tonearms, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Miyajima Zero; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810; Studer A812; Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC> Lampizator Pacific

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dminches View Post
        I still feel that the non-classical offerings are limited via commercial channels. Chad's stuff and the tape project titles are great but $450 per album is still a lot. Maybe that's where the price point is going to settle.
        Unless the price of tape and metal reels fall, the price for albums released on tape will remain high. Duplication is done in real time with a limited number of machines which makes the process slow, inefficient, and labor intensive. There is nothing cheap or easy about the process of making tapes.
        Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

        Comment


        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          That's why LPs took over. More LPs could be stamped even with high speed tape duping.

      • #5
        It will always be a very small niche market....nothing remotely approaching the recent vinyl resurgence.
        Christian
        System Gear

        Comment


        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          I like to think large niche market. 🤣

      • #6
        Still considering the prices of some the sought after LPs... $450 isn't too bad of price if the music on tape is what you really like and is truly a quality master tape dub, IMO.

        Comment


        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          Great point! Especially say Blue Note jazz titles.

        • Dre_J
          Dre_J commented
          Editing a comment
          "if the music on tape is what you really like and is truly a quality master tape dub, IMO"

          That's the key, IMO

      • #7
        I bought my first tape at the Axpona marketplace.
        Magico M-Project, CAT JL7SE, CH Precision L1/X1/P1, Kronos Pro Limited Edition/SME 3012R/Atlas SL/Opus-1, Schiit Yggdrasil, ZenWave D4 ICs & SCs

        Comment


        • Madfloyd
          Madfloyd commented
          Editing a comment
          Sorry! (Ironic since I can't even play it, lol)

        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          Well u better hurry up then!

        • allenh
          allenh commented
          Editing a comment
          Haha, we're in the same boat then, Ian. I have about 4-5 tapes with nothing to play them on either. :-) Likely will buy the Scheherazade after your recent post, too. :-)

      • #8
        Welcome to the club! Nothing sounds like tape.

        Comment


        • #9
          Originally posted by Madfloyd View Post
          I bought my first tape at the Axpona marketplace.
          Now you have an excuse to buy a deck. Bob's would be a nice one. I would leave it on the stand. It's all integrated and looks very professional.
          Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

          Comment


          • Madfloyd
            Madfloyd commented
            Editing a comment
            I don't have the room (floor space) for it unfortunately.

        • #10
          Originally posted by mep View Post

          Unless the price of tape and metal reels fall, the price for albums released on tape will remain high. Duplication is done in real time with a limited number of machines which makes the process slow, inefficient, and labor intensive. There is nothing cheap or easy about the process of making tapes.
          This will continue to make tape a specialist market. I can't see any volume in the software side that would affect prices and have them go down. Basically we are a bunch of old fa__ts that will eventually fizzle out. With LPs... there is far more software out there and the hardware is much more approachable.. it will be around forever.

          As far as prices being reasonable... not sure how anyone can claim $450 is "not too bad".... I do ok, but the pricing on these is stratospheric.


          Having said all that I bought my first two tapes as well at Axpona...

          Click image for larger version

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          Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
          Brinkmann Balance & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
          Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
          Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
          Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2
          Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

          Comment


        • #11
          Originally posted by kcin View Post

          This will continue to make tape a specialist market. I can't see any volume in the software side that would affect prices and have them go down. Basically we are a bunch of old fa__ts that will eventually fizzle out. With LPs... there is far more software out there and the hardware is much more approachable.. it will be around forever.

          As far as prices being reasonable... not sure how anyone can claim $450 is "not too bad".... I do ok, but the pricing on these is stratospheric.


          Having said all that I bought my first two tapes as well at Axpona...

          Click image for larger version

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          The boxes for Chad's tapes are hand made and would cost the same if he buys 10 or 10,000. Plus the cost of labor and paying Gus Skinas to do the transfers. The Bernie Grundman transferred tapes cost because of his hourly rates $650-675. Not to mention the lawyers fees. It all adds up in the end.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
          -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

          Comment


          • #12
            Guys this I am sure is a dumb question but back in the cassette days there was high speed dubbing
            is this a viable way to dub tapes. Does it defeat the quality
            ?
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #13
              Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

              The boxes for Chad's tapes are hand made and would cost the same if he buys 10 or 10,000. Plus the cost of labor and paying Gus Skinas to do the transfers. The Bernie Grundman transferred tapes cost because of his hourly rates $650-675. Not to mention the lawyers fees. It all adds up in the end.
              I bet, I get the cost of inputs for these things... this is a niche specialist market for sure. In the end the producers need to make a buck as well to sustain themselves and continue to provide the service we all benefit by this.

              Almost anyone could stretch for for say a 1/2 speed 200 gram 45rpm copy of some LP for $65 but the cost of ongoing admission for the tape scene is definitely steep.

              Even at half that price , a robust collection is a significant investment.
              Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
              Brinkmann Balance & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
              Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
              Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
              Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2
              Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

              Comment


              • #14
                Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
                Guys this I am sure is a dumb question but back in the cassette days there was high speed dubbing
                is this a viable way to dub tapes. Does it defeat the quality
                ?
                To varying degrees but yes. That's why for the ultimate in sound, the new tapes are duped in real time.

                Trivia fact. The technology used in Keith Johnson's one of a kind tape deck was actually first developed for high speed duping.
                Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                ________________________________________

                -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                Comment


                • #15
                  Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                  Plus the cost of labor and paying Gus Skinas to do the transfers. The Bernie Grundman transferred tapes cost because of his hourly rates $650-675. Not to mention the lawyers fees. It all adds up in the end.
                  I didn't even make that when I did Anesthesia! I'm in the wrong business..... or I may need to increase my prices!!

                  Comment


                  • MylesBAstor
                    MylesBAstor commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Sorry slightly confusing. The tapes are that price. But the Groove Note and Lyn Stanley tapes are $200 more than most other double reels.
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