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Is there room for an all new ANALOG format?

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  • Is there room for an all new ANALOG format?

    While analog sounds great, all we have is LP and tape formats. Each have their own major pros and major cons. I have been wondering for some time though,
    could it be possible for engineers to develop/invent an all new true all analog format without any major cons? I know digital is the future with computers and the internet, but if a new home analog format could be developed with superior sound and features, maybe it could coexist with digital formats?
    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

  • #2
    Oh God he is going to bring back 8 tracks

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Garth View Post
      Oh God he is going to bring back 8 tracks
      we already have tape formats, Im talking about something all new, not tape nor LP
      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

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      • #4
        Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

        we already have tape formats, Im talking about something all new, not tape nor LP

        Like?
        Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mep View Post


          Like?
          I dont know, if I did, I would invent it myself. Maybe something similar to the RF carrier/optical disc system FM used on early laserdisc audio but higher performance? Maybe a purely optical based system? I really dont know. But it seems to me there must be more ways to do analog than lp and tape.
          Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

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          • #6
            Laser LP players have already been tried and were never accepted by the high-end community. But that was still playing back standard LPs. A purely optical system sounds like a digital system.
            Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mep View Post
              Laser LP players have already been tried and were never accepted by the high-end community. But that was still playing back standard LPs. A purely optical system sounds like a digital system.
              I didn't suggest Laser LP players and its possible to modulate and demodulate light purely in the analog domain. But in an audio application its more likely to modulate a digital carrier in a fm mode.
              Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

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              • #8
                The problem is...all the good music was made years ago on analog tape. Music these days sucks in comparison.... (My opinion) so developing a new analog format makes no sense to me.
                Christian
                System Gear

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rockitman View Post
                  The problem is...all the good music was made years ago on analog tape. Music these days sucks in comparison.... (My opinion) so developing a new analog format makes no sense to me.
                  but what if its better than lps or tape as a home format? Those old analog tapes can be presented in their full analog glory, only better.
                  Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There was an analog photo-optic sound format for many years, film. The sound was offset from the film in the gate assembly, but offset to a position where it could by picked up smoothly. You've probably heard what happens when the loop is lost and the sound is more like standing in front of a large fan modulated at 24 Hz (the 24 frame per second rate). Yeah, repaired projectors on the side many years ago.

                    ‚ÄčI suppose something similar could be done on a much smaller scale given blue laser masking techniques on some sort of substrate. Problem is creating a whole new chain of mastering, production and playback equipment and making it economically viable.

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                    • #11
                      If you are to have a new format that will make it in the market the best chance of it happing is if it does some or as many of the following .
                      1. Protects the money to the artist and record company Tape and digital are to easy to copy or steal
                      2. Is easy to store records take up far to much room for a lot of folks
                      3. Sound is better than Tape record and CD
                      4 Easy to use Tape is harder than records to play and cassettes did not stand up as well as records in normal house holds. ( a lot more old records made it to OLD than Tape did )
                      5 works in some or all of the Home the Car and on your person ( the head phone crowd )
                      6 At a cost that is pocket change ( The Oh it is great and it is only 20 bucks )
                      7 It should be cheap small cool and sound great.
                      8 Play able on gear the average person can buy.
                      9 Not sure this can be done but I get your point analog formats are 50 plus years old what is the next great thing because we could use a update.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The answer to the OP's question is no. No money, no talent willing to work on something with no hope of success in the marketplace, and thus the idea is DOA.
                        Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Garth View Post
                          If you are to have a new format that will make it in the market the best chance of it happing is if it does some or as many of the following .
                          1. Protects the money to the artist and record company Tape and digital are to easy to copy or steal
                          2. Is easy to store records take up far to much room for a lot of folks
                          3. Sound is better than Tape record and CD
                          4 Easy to use Tape is harder than records to play and cassettes did not stand up as well as records in normal house holds. ( a lot more old records made it to OLD than Tape did )
                          5 works in some or all of the Home the Car and on your person ( the head phone crowd )
                          6 At a cost that is pocket change ( The Oh it is great and it is only 20 bucks )
                          7 It should be cheap small cool and sound great.
                          8 Play able on gear the average person can buy.
                          9 Not sure this can be done but I get your point analog formats are 50 plus years old what is the next great thing because we could use a update.
                          But just to play devil's advocate, all of the so called technological advances eg reel-to-reel--->LP; LP-->digital; digital-->MP3, etc. have all been about great mass production and nothing to do with sound. So anything new in analog would have to do with greater mass distribution.
                          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
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                          • Garth
                            Garth commented
                            Editing a comment
                            your right wish you were wrong but your not

                          • MylesBAstor
                            MylesBAstor commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Guess you could have thrown real time to superfast duping and cassettes in there too.

                        • #14
                          Hot damn - another copy of Brothers in Arms.


                          I don't think so.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Given that both R2R and LP have been a commercial delivery vehicle in wide use for over 60 years with nothing more than increment improvements in that time, I would guess that no one has either tried or tried but not succeeded in a new format. It has taken digital over 30 years to go from the first commericial releases (late 1970's) to the present state of art (256DSD, or 384DXD).

                            My best guess is that we will continue to see incremental improvements in analogue playback (both equipment and media), as we have in the past decade. Remember 15ips 2track as a consumer medium began just 10 years ago (Tape Project is currently celebrating their 10th anniversary). Improvements in the quality of LP pressings are also being made - Chad Kassem's work at the forefront. We could see further improvements in both areas. Of course, what makes that possible is that the improvements have been backward compatible with the installed base of hardware, particularly for vinyl. If we moved to better sound with a different speed or width tape or a radical new tape formulation, or different way of cutting a record - maybe with a different material, if it is not backward compatible (think 3/4" tape with three tracks at 25ips with a completely different tape formulation, or a much thicker record with a 20" diameter rotating at 55rpm from inside out), then it would take a major capital investment in both hardware and media to begin.

                            Maybe the fundamental barrier that analogue has to overcome is that its main competition, digital, has economies of scale and benefits from improvements in technology outside the recording industry (cheaper storage, more powerful chips) that analogue does not have. If a new analogue technology is developed, it may have to wait for some parallel development in technology which it can piggyback on. One story is how Decca made the breakthrough to extend the high frequency range of the record. It occurred in WWII when the British military asked them for help in the detection of German submarines to distinguish them from the British submarines. The sonic profiles were different in the high frequencies, and Decca developed the technology, which they later applied to their records, after the war. In effect, the war expenditures financed their technological breakthrough.

                            Larry
                            Last edited by astrotoy; 05-08-2016, 02:26 PM.
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