Deadwax Matrix Numbers

[MikeCh]

I'm not quite sure where I gathered this information from or who might have shared with me over the years, but figured you guys might appreciate the info. I came across this info while cleaning out some old files from my laptop PC this past week.

Larry, or others....can you confirm this info is correct? I certainly don't want to be propagating incorrect info if there are errors here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DECCA MATRIX: (unknown source and quotes / opinions are not mine)

At 6 o'clock position:
You will see something like ZAL-6526-2E. ZAL means it is stereo. If mono, XARL. The 6526 is a recording number. The 2 of 2E means second lacquer made from that recording. "E" is the code for cutting engineer. 2E/1W means side A and B came from lacquer but by different engineers.

list of Decca Engineers from 1957 to 1972:
A= Guy Fletcher.
B= Ronald Mason.
C= Trevor Fletcher.
D= Jack Law.
E= Stanley Goodall.
F= Cyril Windebank.
G= Ted Burket ------Good
K= Tony Hawkins.
L= George Bettyes.
W= Harry Fisher. -----Good

At 9 o'clock position:
There will be a number like "1" or "3". That is the mother number.

At 12 o'clock position:
There will be 2 letter code indicating what year the LP was pressed.

CT - from 1950-1951
RT - from 1959
ET - from 1960
ZT - from 1962
OT - from 1963
MT - from 1965
KT - about 1967 to 1969
JT - about 1969 to 1972
no age-codings were used after 1972"

At 3 o'clock position:
There will be 2 letter code like "UG". That is the stamper number using the word "B U C K I N G H A M" to represent the numbers 1 through 10. UG means 27th stamper from that particular mother.

IMO Toney Hawkins and Harry Fisher rank up there with Ted Burket. Also it seems that the cutting equipment was noticeably improved in 1969 so the JT versions are often better regardless of who did the mastering.

What I find particularly ironic is that many of the best recordings from back in the early 60s were originally mastered by Stanley Goodall on the older equipment to make the original Decca 2000 series LPs that are so sought after and yet are inferior to some later masterings more commonly found on the London label. There is noticeably far more noise on the older masterings (probably due to inferior lacquers)

So my basic rules of thumb are look for a G,W or K. Look for a JT and get the lowest stamper # based on the Buckingham system. Look for single B. This is actually far more critical than most people realize.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RCA MATRIX (unknown source and quotes / opinions are not mine)

On a typical RCA Living Stereo, you will see a matrix number something like: J2RY1989-18S.

This means:

J - year code of cutting master, 1958 in this case
2 - pressed for RCA
R - classical
Y - stereo
1989 - master tape reel number
18S - sequential lacquer number

At about 1/3 away on the deadwax, you will see a code along the lines of 'A3', 'B1', 'C2', etc. The letter is the mother, and the number is the stamper. RCA would typically make two or three mothers from each lacquer, and pull two, three, or maybe four stampers from each mother.

In the remaining 1/3 spot there will be a pressing plant code. 'I' = Indianapolis, IN, 'R' = Rockway, NJ, and 'H' = Hollywood, CA.

The records with 1S/1S in the lacquer numbers represent the earliest cuttings, but they may or may not be the best-sounding copies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


What I find interesting with the RCA LP's (mono's mostly) in my collection is that the vast majority are all 1SA1 / 1SA1 pressings. This would indicate "first lacquer, first mother, first stamper" which is pretty cool but as I've been told and have heard for myself, the 1SA1 is not always the best sounding of a given recording. That takes the whole searching, finding, listening process to a WHOLE other level to determine which pressings are the better ones of a given title.

[MylesBAstor]

I'm not quite sure where I gathered this information from or who might have shared with me over the years, but figured you guys might appreciate the info. I came across this info while cleaning out some old files from my laptop PC this past week.

Larry, or others....can you confirm this info is correct? I certainly don't want to be propagating incorrect info if there are errors here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DECCA MATRIX: (unknown source and quotes / opinions are not mine)

At 6 o'clock position:
You will see something like ZAL-6526-2E. ZAL means it is stereo. If mono, XARL. The 6526 is a recording number. The 2 of 2E means second lacquer made from that recording. "E" is the code for cutting engineer. 2E/1W means side A and B came from lacquer but by different engineers.

list of Decca Engineers from 1957 to 1972:
A= Guy Fletcher.
B= Ronald Mason.
C= Trevor Fletcher.
D= Jack Law.
E= Stanley Goodall.
F= Cyril Windebank.
G= Ted Burket ------Good
K= Tony Hawkins.
L= George Bettyes.
W= Harry Fisher. -----Good

At 9 o'clock position:
There will be a number like "1" or "3". That is the mother number.

At 12 o'clock position:
There will be 2 letter code indicating what year the LP was pressed.

CT - from 1950-1951
RT - from 1959
ET - from 1960
ZT - from 1962
OT - from 1963
MT - from 1965
KT - about 1967 to 1969
JT - about 1969 to 1972
no age-codings were used after 1972"

At 3 o'clock position:
There will be 2 letter code like "UG". That is the stamper number using the word "B U C K I N G H A M" to represent the numbers 1 through 10. UG means 27th stamper from that particular mother.

IMO Toney Hawkins and Harry Fisher rank up there with Ted Burket. Also it seems that the cutting equipment was noticeably improved in 1969 so the JT versions are often better regardless of who did the mastering.

What I find particularly ironic is that many of the best recordings from back in the early 60s were originally mastered by Stanley Goodall on the older equipment to make the original Decca 2000 series LPs that are so sought after and yet are inferior to some later masterings more commonly found on the London label. There is noticeably far more noise on the older masterings (probably due to inferior lacquers)

So my basic rules of thumb are look for a G,W or K. Look for a JT and get the lowest stamper # based on the Buckingham system. Look for single B. This is actually far more critical than most people realize.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RCA MATRIX (unknown source and quotes / opinions are not mine)

On a typical RCA Living Stereo, you will see a matrix number something like: J2RY1989-18S.

This means:

J - year code of cutting master, 1958 in this case
2 - pressed for RCA
R - classical
Y - stereo
1989 - master tape reel number
18S - sequential lacquer number

At about 1/3 away on the deadwax, you will see a code along the lines of 'A3', 'B1', 'C2', etc. The letter is the mother, and the number is the stamper. RCA would typically make two or three mothers from each lacquer, and pull two, three, or maybe four stampers from each mother.

In the remaining 1/3 spot there will be a pressing plant code. 'I' = Indianapolis, IN, 'R' = Rockway, NJ, and 'H' = Hollywood, CA.

The records with 1S/1S in the lacquer numbers represent the earliest cuttings, but they may or may not be the best-sounding copies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


What I find interesting with the RCA LP's (mono's mostly) in my collection is that the vast majority are all 1SA1 / 1SA1 pressings. This would indicate "first lacquer, first mother, first stamper" which is pretty cool but as I've been told and have heard for myself, the 1SA1 is not always the best sounding of a given recording. That takes the whole searching, finding, listening process to a WHOLE other level to determine which pressings are the better ones of a given title.

See post #5

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/music/general-music-topics/3727-insight-to-how-the-decca-sound-was-created

[MylesBAstor]

Also check this out!

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/music/classical/15543-emi-hmv-vs-emi-odeon

[astrotoy]

Hi Mike, good summary. Jack Law's widow Elaine looked through Jack's notes for me last year when the initials question came up and found a few more.
H was listed as Eric ?
J was listed as Dick?
K was Tony Hawkins from 1962 on. Earlier records with K was Peter Atwood.
A was Jack Law 1950-53 wax only, and then Guy Fletcher from 1954 on
G was Ted Burkett from 1962 on. Danny Gosling 1958, and SImon Eadon very few.
M was Paschal Byrne
N was Noel Taylor and also Dave ? (!959)
P was Mike Goldsmith (1959)
R is for remakes
T was for Gil Went
V was Quentin Williams
Y I never found out who that was or were.

John Dunkerley also told me that sometimes other engineers (including himself) were pulled in temporarily to do some cutting work. They just borrowed an initial from someone else, so you can't be absolutely sure.

As far as older Decca pressings, my experience is mixed. I bought most of my original Deccas in the UK, mostly from dealers in London. They often play grade the records or examine them carefully, so I have a good number of fine sounding SXL2000's. What I think was the main issue is that records issued in the pre 1963 era were typically played with heavy tracking stylii and not very compliant arms. As time went on, the stylii got better as did the arms, so by the '70's the records have less wear. Also as time went on a fair number of the cutting engineers like Jack Law, Stan Goodall, and Cy Windebank switched over to become recording engineers.

Ted Burkett and Harry Fisher did the vast majority of the later classical issues. I just looked over my Decca database and 99% of the records released after 1964 were cut by either Ted or Harry. Tony Hawkins didn't do too many classicals.

As far as RCA goes, unless the record sold reasonably, it would stay as a 1S. Sometimes they had problems with lacquers and there is no 1S, or 2S, etc. and so you will sometimes find records with 1S on one side and 5S on the other, indicating problems with the lacquers on the 5S side. I'm not too knowledgeable about the intricacies of the RCA numbering system. I know if you look at the Decca pressed RCA's from the UK, you will see the same Decca matrix configurations in the dead wax.

I believe the sequence of making a record is starting with the master tape as 0, 1 - lacquer which you can play, 2 - master or father which is a reverse image, 3 - mother which is normal, 4 stamper which is reverse, and finally 5 record itself which is normal. So for the vast majority of records you have 5 steps from tape to record. Occasionally, like some of Water Lily's one step plating process, the master or father becomes the stamper. You are then limited to pressing a small number of records - a few hundred from any lacquer.

Larry

[MikeCh]

Fantastic Larry, thank you for filling in some gaps for me.

Almost all (if not all) of the Decca Mono's I have are engraved with a "P1" (P was Mike Goldsmith (1959) per your records) and correlate to the 1959+/- time frame that I thought they were. Very cool.

[Bill Hart]

Does it make sense to set up a sticky for this subject which could conceivably be expanded over time to cover different labels, countries, genres? Some of the work has obviously already been done, but it is a great resource, this and helpful, not just to seasoned collectors, but to those starting to dive deeper into old records.

[MikeCh]

Does it make sense to set up a sticky for this subject which could conceivably be expanded over time to cover different labels, countries, genres? Some of the work has obviously already been done, but it is a great resource, this and helpful, not just to seasoned collectors, but to those starting to dive deeper into old records.

Good idea Bill!

[MylesBAstor]

Easy enough to do.

[MylesBAstor]

Hi Mike, good summary. Jack Law's widow Elaine looked through Jack's notes for me last year when the initials question came up and found a few more.
H was listed as Eric ?
J was listed as Dick?
K was Tony Hawkins from 1962 on. Earlier records with K was Peter Atwood.
A was Jack Law 1950-53 wax only, and then Guy Fletcher from 1954 on
G was Ted Burkett from 1962 on. Danny Gosling 1958, and SImon Eadon very few.
M was Paschal Byrne
N was Noel Taylor and also Dave ? (!959)
P was Mike Goldsmith (1959)
R is for remakes
T was for Gil Went
V was Quentin Williams
Y I never found out who that was or were.

John Dunkerley also told me that sometimes other engineers (including himself) were pulled in temporarily to do some cutting work. They just borrowed an initial from someone else, so you can't be absolutely sure.

As far as older Decca pressings, my experience is mixed. I bought most of my original Deccas in the UK, mostly from dealers in London. They often play grade the records or examine them carefully, so I have a good number of fine sounding SXL2000's. What I think was the main issue is that records issued in the pre 1963 era were typically played with heavy tracking stylii and not very compliant arms. As time went on, the stylii got better as did the arms, so by the '70's the records have less wear. Also as time went on a fair number of the cutting engineers like Jack Law, Stan Goodall, and Cy Windebank switched over to become recording engineers.

Ted Burkett and Harry Fisher did the vast majority of the later classical issues. I just looked over my Decca database and 99% of the records released after 1964 were cut by either Ted or Harry. Tony Hawkins didn't do too many classicals.

As far as RCA goes, unless the record sold reasonably, it would stay as a 1S. Sometimes they had problems with lacquers and there is no 1S, or 2S, etc. and so you will sometimes find records with 1S on one side and 5S on the other, indicating problems with the lacquers on the 5S side. I'm not too knowledgeable about the intricacies of the RCA numbering system. I know if you look at the Decca pressed RCA's from the UK, you will see the same Decca matrix configurations in the dead wax.

I believe the sequence of making a record is starting with the master tape as 0, 1 - lacquer which you can play, 2 - master or father which is a reverse image, 3 - mother which is normal, 4 stamper which is reverse, and finally 5 record itself which is normal. So for the vast majority of records you have 5 steps from tape to record. Occasionally, like some of Water Lily's one step plating process, the master or father becomes the stamper. You are then limited to pressing a small number of records - a few hundred from any lacquer.

Larry

Gale Records did the same thing. Also MOFI announced at Axpona they will have a new US1-S LP single step process doing the same thing.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/04/29/axpona2016-mobile-fidelity-gets-closer-to-the-master-tape-than-ever-before-with-ud1-s-lp-pressing/

Oh and highly recommend this Gale LP. A long time reference for me but what happened to the other volume? (the other LPs on the Gale label aren't up to the sound of the Percussion LP though.)

[astrotoy]

I remember the Gale records. I think they were available at hi-fi shops only? Didn't know they were single plate. I have only one - The Schumann Frauenliebe u. Leben bought sometime in the late '70s. I looked it up on Discogs and there are six for sale around $12-20 each. Myles' album is there also - $12 to $20. Not bad considering 40 years of inflation. Interesting how the MoFi project turns out.

Larry

[Rob]

Myles just loves the percussion records

I picked up the Gale record based on his recco...not something you'll play often altho Mallets Melody and Mayhem gets played more often. I found a stereo copy of Mallets for $5, at Hobson's store no less!

[MylesBAstor]

Myles just loves the percussion records

I picked up the Gale record based on his recco...not something you'll play often altho Mallets Melody and Mayhem gets played more often. I found a stereo copy of Mallets for $5, at Hobson's store no less!

Yes I do. My guilty audiophile pleasure. 😺 Great test record and the sound of which has greatly improved over the many years. Still wish there had been a volume 2.

Funny thing though is that Chavez piece has been recorded numerous times on many labels. There's an interesting performance of it on Columbia.

[MylesBAstor]

I remember the Gale records. I think they were available at hi-fi shops only? Didn't know they were single plate. I have only one - The Schumann Frauenliebe u. Leben bought sometime in the late '70s. I looked it up on Discogs and there are six for sale around $12-20 each. Myles' album is there also - $12 to $20. Not bad considering 40 years of inflation. Interesting how the MoFi project turns out.

Larry

Yes I have all of them. Didn't realize though until looking at discogs they were all made in the late '70s.

[allenh]

Also check this out!

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/m...v-vs-emi-odeon

We should sticky this one as well. Great info there!

[Bill Hart]

Organizationally, it would seem that there should be a sub-category for "deadwax," with separate threads- some should be stickies, perhaps by label, and allow people to post comments, updates or questions. Sort of crowd-sourced, and additional information could be added into the sticky ones periodically, as a reference/resource. I know Myles has nothing else to do.....