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  • Origin Live Turntable Belt

    I have owned a belt drive Galibier Stelvio for several years. During that time I've experimented with several tweaks; including different sized pulleys, belt tension, etc. I have also tried several belts and noted changes both good and bad with sound quality. I recently took a flyer and ordered a pair of Original Live turntable belts for a total of $65 including the shipping from England. Ordering was easy on their website: https://www.originlive.com/turntable...s-upgrade.html and the package arrived ~10 days after ordering.

    Opening the package, I was frankly disappointed. The belts are much thinner than I have used in the past: how can there be enough surface area to drive my >100# platter? And they are "stretchy" which seems antithetical to driving the platter at a constant speed. Determined to get my $65 worth, I replaced my current Sperling belt and gave it a go...



    WOW! This was not a subtle change. Lots more air, deeper more propulsive bass, increased volume and more of a sense of 'liveness'. After playing many, many records with both my mono (Durand Talea/Miyajima BE) and stereo (Durand Telos/Benz Micro) set ups, I became convinced the sound was "too hot". Hmmm...given the consistency of this finding with both mono and stereo, I began to wonder if my setups needed some adjustment. My theory was that with the old belt, I had been previously losing data from the records and compensating in my set up.

    Sooo, yesterday, I adjusting my mono set up to optimize the sound. After some experimentation, raising VTA 1.6mm really locked things in. The 'edge' was gone but every other improvement was 'more better'. I'm not typically prone to audio hyperbole but in my application, this has been revelatory.

    Couple of takeaways so far:
    1. If you own a belt drive turntable, it is definitely worthwhile experimenting with belts.
    2. Introducing a tweak often requires further system fine tuning.

    I'll work on the stereo setup this weekend and report back.
    Last edited by jazdoc; 07-10-2017, 01:04 AM.

  • #2
    Jazdoc
    Thanks for that review, I did not order it before because I was skeptical about Origin Lives hyperbole, I have now ordered one
    Thanks again

    Comment


    • jazdoc
      jazdoc commented
      Editing a comment
      Let me know your results

  • #3
    I am fascinated by belt drives and belts. It's like a paradox wrapped in a conundrum. We need to transmit rotational power to the platter, yet totally decouple the motor vibrations from reaching the platter at the same moment in time.

    How can a stretchy belt sound better? It's more decoupled than a non-stretchy belt. But at the same time, it's not as efficient at transmitting power. High mass platters are less susceptible to momentary fluctuations in drive power due to high inertia. This is one of those wonderful counter-intuitive things about belt drives. Some people suggest a low mass platter with a stiffer belt sounds better with more PRAT. Personally I think think it is an optimization issue and execution of the design is what matters. So trying different belts is a good idea.

    Like most optimization processes, it's like finding the Goldilocks setting, not too much or too little, but just right. Like focussing the lens on a camera or getting the right suspension setting on a race car.

    What's really interesting is the sonic differences between belt drives, rim drives and direct drives... I've wanted to build a hydraulic drive for many years now that doesn't use a motor but only compressed gas as the energy source...
    Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
    Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
    Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
    Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
    Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
    Digital: Lumin Network Player with Lumin NAS
    Cables: Genesis Advanced Technologies/Absolute Fidelity Interface Interconnects, Speaker, Phono and Power
    A/C Power: Extensive System Upgrades, Sub-panel w/hard-wired power cables, and IsoTek Super Titan Passive Power Conditioning for Amplifiers
    Accessories: Custom Acrylic Equipment Stands, Klaudio Ultrasonic RCM

    Comment


    • #4
      Spent some time this morning dialing in the stereo set up and was rewarded with another bump in performance. Quieter, more propulsive and 'live' sounding. Really noticing the blacker background; clearly other belts have been transmitting/introducing noise into the platter. Amazing what is in those grooves.

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by jazdoc View Post
        Spent some time this morning dialing in the stereo set up and was rewarded with another bump in performance. Quieter, more propulsive and 'live' sounding. Really noticing the blacker background; clearly other belts have been transmitting/introducing noise into the platter. Amazing what is in those grooves.
        It's always amazing what is in those grooves! The better you system becomes, the more information you extract.
        Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by jazdoc View Post
          I have owned a belt drive Galibier Stelvio for several years. During that time I've experimented with several tweaks; including different sized pulleys, belt tension, etc. I have also tried several belts and noted changes both good and bad with sound quality. I recently took a flyer and ordered a pair of Original Live turntable belts for a total of $65 including the shipping from England. Ordering was easy on their website: https://www.originlive.com/turntable...s-upgrade.html and the package arrived ~10 days after ordering.

          Opening the package, I was frankly disappointed. The belts are much thinner than I have used in the past: how can there be enough surface area to drive my >100# platter? And they are "stretchy" which seems antithetical to driving the platter at a constant speed. Determined to get my $65 worth, I replaced my current Sperling belt and gave it a go...



          WOW! This was not a subtle change. Lots more air, deeper more propulsive bass, increased volume and more of a sense of 'liveness'. After playing many, many records with both my mono (Durand Talea/Miyajima BE) and stereo (Durand Telos/Benz Micro) set ups, I became convinced the sound was "too hot". Hmmm...given the consistency of this finding with both mono and stereo, I began to wonder if my setups needed some adjustment. My theory was that with the old belt, I had been previously losing data from the records and compensating in my set up.

          Sooo, yesterday, I adjusting my mono set up to optimize the sound. After some experimentation, lowering VTA 1.6mm really locked things in. The 'edge' was gone but every other improvement was 'more better'. I'm not typically prone to audio hyperbole but in my application, this has been revelatory.

          Couple of takeaways so far:
          1. If you own a belt drive turntable, it is definitely worthwhile experimenting with belts.
          2. Introducing a tweak often requires further system fine tuning.

          I'll work on the stereo setup this weekend and report back.
          Back in the '90s Forsell owners used dental floss as a belt.

          Speed control, grabbing and slipping, noise transmission, contact area, etc.

          Did your table originally come with a flat belt?
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
          -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

          Comment


          • jazdoc
            jazdoc commented
            Editing a comment
            The original belt was Mylar

        • #7
          Dental floss was generally used with the Forsells that had the flywheel. My Forsell used a belt much like the ones currently used by VPI.
          Analog: Holbo Turntable, VdH Crimson Strad XGW; Forsell Air Reference, Transfiguration Proteus; Rega RP-8, VAS Nova Mono
          Digital: Mac mini 6,2 with YFS PS-12M LPS; Exogal Comet Plus, Exogal Ion PowerDAC
          Electronics: Aurorasound Vida, Channel D Lino C; Merrill Cara, Gryphon M-100 Mkii (pair)
          Cables: Morrow, Gryphon interconnects; YFS USB cable; Morrow, XLO, Channel D phono cables; Morrow, Gryphon, Goertz speaker cables

          Comment


          • #8
            for a while, I used fishing line as a belt on my vpi, but I gave up on that as the knots kept on breaking.
            Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mono) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

            Comment


            • #9
              Did the fishing line sound clearly better?
              JLH

              Comment


              • JCOConnell
                JCOConnell commented
                Editing a comment
                well, I misplaced the original belt so I fashioned the fishing line belt as a short term temporary replacement only. I found it operated in a slight slip mode compared to the rubber belt (I had to run the motor slightly fast). It sounded at least as good to me as the original belt so I stuck with it for a while but it was too much hassle maintaining belts so I just went back to the factory belt in the long run.

            • #10
              I been using a 1/2" Mylar belt on my Redpoint Model D, and I think it is as good as it gets...

              Comment


              • jazdoc
                jazdoc commented
                Editing a comment
                The Galibier and Redpoint share a common family tree. Might be worth giving the Origin Live belt a try

              • jcmusic
                jcmusic commented
                Editing a comment
                My concern is the stretchy part that you mentioned!!!

            • #11
              Excellent. For all of us can you elaborate what the 1/2" Mylar belt is exactly and where to get it?
              Last edited by jonathanhorwich; 07-15-2017, 12:03 PM.
              JLH

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by jonathanhorwich View Post
                Excellent. For all of us can you elaborate what the 1/2" Mylar belt is exactly and where to get it?
                Here is all the info you will need on it: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...t=mylar%2Bbelt

                Comment


                • #13
                  Oh thank you. Now I finally get it. Very useful and helpful. One minor hitch with VPI (Prime Signature) owners is my belt is round.
                  JLH

                  Comment

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