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  • Straight Talk

    I set up my 3D arm/2nd pivot with great care including the use of the Fozgometer. I noticed however, that the arm/cartridge is not exactly square when looked at from the very front...seems to be at a downhill slant left to right. Although its not that noticeable, it is to me. I checked the Foz by downloading the test signals, and it seems to be right. It sounds good, although there is that annoying question in me.... ..just wondering as to your thoughts.

  • #2
    Cartridges are never perfect. The stylus may not be vertical and or there may be an imbalance in the channels (ie left and right output not the same). The important thing is that it sounds good. What do you think about the dual pivot kit?
    Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
    Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
    Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
    Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
    Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
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    Comment


    • #3
      do you have a digital microscope to view stylus alignment? also try comparing the results you obtained with your Foz using a true RMS digital multimeter like a Fluke. I got rid of my Foz when it was pointed out to me that the Fluke I already owned was more accurate.

      Comment


      • #4
        Joe....the dual pivot addition morphs a very good arm to an exceptional one. I hear a major performance gain with absolutely no down side. Also, the azimuth is locked in place (which brought me to the original post)

        Comment


        • #5
          I solely rely on my ears and eyes when I setup cartridges and I do it very well. Why don't you just try what you think it should be visually and fine tune the setup by ear and compare it with what you get using the Fozgo? You can always go back to where the cartridge is now but at least you might learn something!

          david

          (Edit) Even if you need a device to help with setup you should know that they're don't have 100% accuracy and they work within a range, so you should look at the results as a starting point or guide not the final setting.
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          • #6
            I sold the Foz. I found precisly same result with it. I prefer to look at the cartridge straight on from the front, level it by eye, and then fine tune by ear over time. Excellent results this way.
            Last edited by 1morerecord2clean; 08-06-2017, 07:54 PM.
            Turntable: TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter mat & weight; PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

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            Comment


            • #7
              1morerecord...... so if the stylus is manufactured leaning one way or the other...that side is louder? So to properly adjust one listens for as solid a center image as can be had?

              Comment


              • 1morerecord2clean
                1morerecord2clean commented
                Editing a comment
                I found the Foz gave the same result over 3 different cartridges. And I calibrated the Foz as I think Fremer recommended on AP. I still prefer the old fashioned way. I have asked around at shows and analog folks whom I trust seem to adjust by eye and ear. I too couldn't stand looking at the cartridge listing to one side.

            • #8
              Originally posted by Stringreen View Post
              I set up my 3D arm/2nd pivot with great care including the use of the Fozgometer. I noticed however, that the arm/cartridge is not exactly square when looked at from the very front...seems to be at a downhill slant left to right. Although its not that noticeable, it is to me. I checked the Foz by downloading the test signals, and it seems to be right. It sounds good, although there is that annoying question in me.... ..just wondering as to your thoughts.
              What cartridge are you using?
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

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              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
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              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
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              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Stringreen View Post
                I set up my 3D arm/2nd pivot with great care including the use of the Fozgometer. I noticed however, that the arm/cartridge is not exactly square when looked at from the very front...seems to be at a downhill slant left to right. Although its not that noticeable, it is to me. I checked the Foz by downloading the test signals, and it seems to be right. It sounds good, although there is that annoying question in me.... ..just wondering as to your thoughts.
                There is nothing unusual about that if the measurement and listening says that's the preferred position.

                Dre
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                Comment


                • #10
                  The cartridge in question is the Ortofon Winfield. The cantilever and tip look as straight as can be.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Stringreen View Post
                    The cartridge in question is the Ortofon Winfield. The cantilever and tip look as straight as can be.
                    Do,you have one of those light two gram bubble levels like vdh sells for checking tonearm level and azimuth? Comes in handy to check eyesight.
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                    -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                    -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I too use a Fozgometer and found it to be very accurate, I also use visual alignment. I take an index card and draw lines on it, hold it next to the cartridge perpendicular and then parallel, you will be able to get it perfectly straight this way, I then use the Fozgo to check, sometimes it has to be adjusted to where it leans .I then have a listen.
                      A good test for verification is to use a test record with an azimuth test on it ( left, right and both channels), play the L/R balance signal with the system set to mono, the signals will cancel each other out if correct, I use a fluke and test the voltage at each speaker. If it is in balance the Volts should be the same minus the cartridges imbalance. I tend to believe that the Fozgo does not take the cartridges imbalance into consideration and that is why we get a tilt.

                      George Merrill told me to read the Mgfs, spec and adjust so that the imbalance is as specified.
                      It would be easier to use a scope for this.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0528.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	1.24 MB
ID:	61427

                        Comment


                        • EdAInWestOC
                          EdAInWestOC commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Did you plug the phono leads directly into the Foz? Have you tried the connecting the outputs from your phono preamp into the Foz? I found that my Foz had a problem with the very low output from my LOMC cartridge (Ortofon Quintet Black S).

                          I struggled with it until I tried the outputs from the phono preamp.

                        • MylesBAstor
                          MylesBAstor commented
                          Editing a comment
                          The old Signet/AT cartridge analyzer had the same problem. I used to use an old Ortofon T-10 SUT with the AT analyzer to up the output.

                        • MylesBAstor
                          MylesBAstor commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Another thing that just occurred to me is that the headshell screws might be overtightened? You can warp or crack the arm if too tight.

                      • #14
                        I can see where that would be troubling to you . Although I have had skewed cantilevers and bodies that were not square this looks like listing of the unipivot.

                        Of course your table is level and the arm has been balanced side to side with the out-riggers? Is your pivot point clean and centred and undamaged?

                        I used to have a Pierre Lurne arm that had a balance beam of sorts that ran through the back cup of the unipivot. There were lead slugs in it and you would push them in or out to the centre of gravity and balance the arm.

                        Such is the nature of the unipivot -maddening. .. I might suggest you go to the VPI forum they have some helpful folks that might give some practical advice there. Also satisfy yourself that the 3D arm head shell is square and true and that the arm is not deformed or bent. There have been past reports of quality issues with the 3D arm. This might not be easy to see casually.

                        Ortofon's quality is usually quite good. the top surface of the cart should be checked for square too if the cantilever looks straight. It might mean the whole mechanism of the cartridge internals is set in off square too....

                        Do you have another cartridge to quickly slap on to satisfy your curiosity? This might help. Good luck.
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                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Stringreen View Post
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0528.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	1.24 MB
ID:	61427
                          It would be helpful if the photo was in-line with the cantilever. It is difficult to see how much the azimuth is off.

                          I have had cartridges that required considerable azimuth adjustment before. It was mostly due to age and or damage to the cantilever/suspension. I wouldn't worry about it a lot, however, the manufacturer should inspect it for you if you are concerned.
                          Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
                          Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
                          Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
                          Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
                          Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
                          Digital: Lumin Network Player with Lumin NAS
                          Cables: Genesis Advanced Technologies/Absolute Fidelity Interface Interconnects, Speaker, Phono and Power
                          A/C Power: Extensive System Upgrades, Sub-panel w/hard-wired power cables, and IsoTek Super Titan Passive Power Conditioning for Amplifiers
                          Accessories: Custom Acrylic Equipment Stands, Klaudio Ultrasonic RCM

                          Comment


                          • Joe Pittman
                            Joe Pittman commented
                            Editing a comment
                            It's also good to take a picture with a mirror under the cartridge to see the azimuth.
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