Cartridge channel separation

[Analog21]

I never really looked at "channel separation" in the specifications for cartridges. How important is this specification? Is it underrated? Does it matter at all? Say for example, I was looking at two cartridges a couple weeks ago, the Soundsmith Paua and the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. The listed channel separation for the Paua is 1000 Hz >34 dB and at 50-15,000 >25 dB and for the Cadenza Bronze is 24db. Can someone explain the Hertz and how this applies to musical passages and different volumes? Trying to learn more about this if possible.

[Rob]

Phono carts inherently have poor channel separation among many other 'measurable' parameters which pale compared to digital, I learned long ago to ignore it. my $0.02, Its not a good predictor of how something will sound.

[JCOConnell]

Have they ever done studies on how many dB of separation is needed for a solid reproduction of the soundstage? I'd guess 30-40 is sufficient.

[Analog21]

I'm not sure. I'm also not sure of the hertz frequency and how the channel separation changes with different frequency levels. Is the high frequency suppose to represent the trebles in listening sessions, or high pitched sounds? I would assume channel separation to be highest in the midrange for listening levels, but not sure if that is accurate. Just a guess. I also wonder if channel separation is just a measurable specifications and not always an audible difference. I'm quite a novice with this, so just trying to learn more.

[mep]

What do you mean when you say "explain the hertz?"

[Analog21]

It is a pretty open-ended question Anything pertaining to hertz and listening levels, channel separation, spatial presentation and how frequency levels can impact this. Generally, what frequencies are inaudible, what is the hertz range of the bass, midrange, treble, etc. How does the hertz level (frequency) impact channel separation and defined imaging/soundstage, and should a higher priced cartridge always have better channel separation at all frequencies?

[Chris F]

Cartridge channel separation is not constant over the entire frequency spectrum hence manufacturers specify the separation at the fixed value of 1Khz. I don't know why it's 1Khz but that is the tone you will find on all the test records. If you allow me to speculate I would guess that it's probably because 1Khz is near the center of musical information and also perhaps because the cartridges have the best separation at that point.

When you adjust azimuth on your cartridge to minimize crosstalk you are essentially optimizing the channel separation value.

[MylesBAstor]

I think like most measurements, it was adopted to show the product off at its best.

[Rob]

Cartridge channel separation is not constant over the entire frequency spectrum hence manufacturers specify the separation at the fixed value of 1Khz. I don't know why it's 1Khz but that is the tone you will find on all the test records. If you allow me to speculate I would guess that it's probably because 1Khz is near the center of musical information and also perhaps because the cartridges have the best separation at that point.

When you adjust azimuth on your cartridge to minimize crosstalk you are essentially optimizing the channel separation value.

what if the cart measures -29 in one channel and -35 in another with stylus perpendicular to the groove? this is a QC problem, maybe the coils are misaligned. you can't always compensate with azimuth because you create a whole host of new problems

[MylesBAstor]

what if the cart measures -29 in one channel and -35 in another with stylus perpendicular to the groove? this is a QC problem, maybe the coils are misaligned. you can't always compensate with azimuth because you create a whole host of new problems

I think I'd be cautious with something like the above. However, just due to the construction of a cartridge eg how its wound on the former, many don't have the separation in both channels anyway.

[GaryB]

At the turntable setup seminar that I attended a week and half ago (given by Michael Fremer) he recommended adjusting for balanced crosstalk in left and right channels even if that doesn't give the absolute minimum in one channel. Using the example of -29 in one channel and -35 in the other, Fremer recommends adjusting for -29 and -29 or whatever one can get as the best balance.
----Gary

[MylesBAstor]

Did Mikey talk about using the Feickert phase vs. Foz crosstalk method for setting azimuth?

[GaryB]

Mikey proposed using something similar to the Feikert method but he didn't actually recommend the Feikert adjust+ test sytem. Instead he said to find a test record with information recorded on only the left channel and then only the right channel and then he suggested using a digital oscilloscope to measure crosstalk as azimuth is adjusted +2, +1, 0, -1, -2 degrees. Then plot the results for both channels and find the azimuth where one gets the same crosstalk. QED.
He didn't discuss the fozgometer at all.
---Gary

[jfrech]

My Allaerts MC2 Finish specs at 60db separation at 1khz. This cartridge definitely does width, depth and height well...regardless what the spec says...

[Rob]

I had an Allaerts MC1 boron, Jan specs the same channel separation @ 60 db, sonically I couldnt put my finger on the spec sheet and corroborate it with anything I heard. It didn't stay in my quiver too long, at the time I prefered the Transfiguration.

[Bill Hart]

Man, this is something I never even think about- if it is on the record, I hear it. Multi-tracks can be mucked up pretty well, but can still have a distinct "landscape"- with a big wide deep image that can trick you into the illusion of "real" but who knows? For classical and jazz recordings that aren't messed with too much, it pretty much varies, record by record, doesn't it? I guess a cartridge with better channel separation will give you more discreet information, but isn't the real driver the particular record/pressing and behind that, the recording and mix?

[Analog21]

I think so too Bill. My thinking it is always the source that is primary driver, and the better the cartridge other components, the more can be expressed on that superior recording. I just never thought about channel separation much and to what degree it is important.