Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Problem with ground hum with Miyajima Labs Zero

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Problem with ground hum with Miyajima Labs Zero

    Hoping to get some seasoned advice here.

    An age old analog problem and I’m a new victim. To preface, I have an Aesthetix Rhea Signature phonostage with single-ended phono imputs and no mono button on my preamp.

    So, with little research of possible compatibility issues I recently and enthusiastically went for a Miyajima Labs Zero (mono) to hopefully enjoy all the positive sonic attributes that have been spoken of and unknowingly got myself caught up in a quagmire with an intolerable ground loop hum. I can honestly say that I have never had a real issue with pesky ground loops fortunately, so I’m at a bit of a lose to understand how to deal with this...

    If I understand previous conversations and recommendations requiring the summing of the two pair of cartridge outputs to cancel the ground loop... couldn’t a possibly more eloquent and less signal intrusive alternative be employed than a (summing Y adapter) and (splitting Y adapter) scenario using IC’s and multiple connection points with RCA plugs and sockets? Because like many of us, I find this a huge potential sonic disadvantage.

    Couldn't we simply employ very short, very high quality cartridge jumper wires just after the cartridge pins, bare them midsection and twist paired conductors resulting in a summing of L/R (+) together and L/R (-) together, like so >-< from the cartridge to the tonearm wire and subsequently the phonostage?

    Wouldn’t this take care of a ground loop, and/or am I missing something?

    Thanks in advance 🎶
    Listening/Living room 25.5x14.5x8.5, modestly live & dynamic, Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12, Miyajima Zero, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz, Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Calypso & Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 XLR IC, Silent Source Music Ref mains, Atma-Sphere MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Elrod EPS-3 Sign power cables, Coincident PREt, PS Audio Premiere, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor

  • #2
    I could be missing something here but if you're using a mono cart why do you need to "Y" anything? I use a Miyajima Zero on a second arm and connect the single ended phono cable connections directly to the phono stage as I would normally, just on a 2nd input.
    Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
    Amplifier: Silver Circle Audio 300B Monoblocks with Takatsuki 300B tubes
    Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
    Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
    Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
    Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge
    Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
    Vinyl Care: Audio Desk Pro Ultrasonic & VPI 16.5 RCM
    CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5 to Bricasti M1 DAC
    Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
    Tape Stage: Doshi V.3
    Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
    Wire: Custom Furutech PC's & IC's + Inakustik LS-4004 Air Speaker Cables
    Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra SS's sprinkled about - SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

    Comment


    • DetroitVinylRob
      DetroitVinylRob commented
      Editing a comment
      The Zero cartridge has four output pins, God knows why with (as I understand it) a single coil. Unlike say Lyra, etc who employ dual coils on their mono carts. Also, from what I gather, some preamps don’t seem to present with a hum and others do. Guess I just got “lucky”, mine does. Are you connecting to the phonostage with both pair of cartridge outputs?

    • timztunz
      timztunz commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes sir I am. I connected all four tonearm leads to the cartridge and then connected the single ended phono cable to Left and Right on the 2nd input (out of three available) on my phono stage.

    • DetroitVinylRob
      DetroitVinylRob commented
      Editing a comment
      Timztunz, it sounds like we have a very similar situation. Though something is different in execution

  • #3
    Some tonearms wiring reference ground in the arm. The latest Thoress phono manual goes over some mono setup & cautions. PDF available on line.

    Comment


    • Spla'nin
      Spla'nin commented
      Editing a comment
      Keep us posted as I would be interested in the outcome. Other mfgs like Boulder & BMC mcci are very specific about cabling / shielding / connections on phono inputs due to their individual topography. At the cartridge, coils are carrying signal on both leads (inherently balanced).

    • Spla'nin
      Spla'nin commented
      Editing a comment
      You may have already seen this .. Ibelchev writes what the Aesthetix manual shows for the Rhea connections.

      https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...iyajima%2BZero

    • DetroitVinylRob
      DetroitVinylRob commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes Spla’nin, saw that thread and the older thread it references. Thanks

  • #4
    For what its worth I had a audible ground hum when connecting my TT into a system with a stereo cartridge. I took a stranded speaker wire folded one end over to it up double up and pushed it into the ground pin of the outlet. I took the other end of the wire stripped back and touched it to a metal section on the plinth and the hum was completely gone. If it works I can share with you what I made as the final wiring to make a ground. Also all that Y patch stuff makes no sense to me since the source is a mono recording therefore what travels down the L/R interconnects is mono in content.

    Comment


    • #5
      So, here is what I received to support my situation from the kind folks at Aesthetix...
      Mono Cartridge Connection.pdf

      and the Thoress info:
      thoeress_phono_enhancer_manual.pdf
      Attached Files
      Listening/Living room 25.5x14.5x8.5, modestly live & dynamic, Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12, Miyajima Zero, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz, Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Calypso & Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 XLR IC, Silent Source Music Ref mains, Atma-Sphere MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Elrod EPS-3 Sign power cables, Coincident PREt, PS Audio Premiere, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor

      Comment


      • Spla'nin
        Spla'nin commented
        Editing a comment
        Rob, got it, thanks for the info. Is the Zero four prong or two prong on the output?

      • DetroitVinylRob
        DetroitVinylRob commented
        Editing a comment
        the Miyajima Zero mono is four prong.

      • Spla'nin
        Spla'nin commented
        Editing a comment
        We need to identify the two correct output pins as the manual identifies two possibilities . If you have a multimeter and are OK with using it in your setup, that is one way to find the approx. 6ohm coil. Another way is to call Bob of Bob's Devices at 910-612-8666 who's a Miyajima dealer for the prong pinouts.

    • #6
      So, another piece of the puzzle to mono play... who could imagine this would be such a (non-standard) unpredictable deal? The Miyajima Zero mono is internally bridged between pair of plus (+) and bridged between pair of minus (-) pins. It is a true single coil (Info from Robyatt Audio) with a pin take out of:

      Red right +
      Green right -
      White left +
      Blue left -

      *As I understand it, what is creating an issue of ground loop is the (-) from cartridge L/R bridged internally and with some modern phonostages doing the same, the (-) from L/R connected this creates a hum.
      Last edited by DetroitVinylRob; 03-17-2018, 02:45 PM. Reason: Corrected inaccuracy
      Listening/Living room 25.5x14.5x8.5, modestly live & dynamic, Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12, Miyajima Zero, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz, Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Calypso & Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 XLR IC, Silent Source Music Ref mains, Atma-Sphere MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Elrod EPS-3 Sign power cables, Coincident PREt, PS Audio Premiere, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor

      Comment


      • Spla'nin
        Spla'nin commented
        Editing a comment
        So if that info is correct for the mono cart and comparing their info to the Aesthetix manual cart option - looks like the 'ace benz' orientation.

    • #7
      I agree Spla’nin, if I understand this correctly, it actually makes sense to me and I’m setting it up to test, as we speak.

      Here is what happened. Hooked up the mono rig to phonostage and preamp exactly like Glenn at Aesthetix shows in diagram, disregarding all else. Sound gorgeous, absolutely no hum (no ground loop), works just fine. Game over.

      Moral to story: 1. do our due diligence before we jump. 2. Would be great to get “all” operational instructions up front from manufacturers.

      Happy listening!
      Last edited by DetroitVinylRob; 03-17-2018, 06:00 PM. Reason: clarity
      Listening/Living room 25.5x14.5x8.5, modestly live & dynamic, Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12, Miyajima Zero, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz, Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Calypso & Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 XLR IC, Silent Source Music Ref mains, Atma-Sphere MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Elrod EPS-3 Sign power cables, Coincident PREt, PS Audio Premiere, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor

      Comment


      • #8
        Awesome everything worked out Rob. Life is a process / adventure sometimes. Enjoy your music. I've been eyeballing this cart myself so I'm very glad to see your success.

        Comment


        • #9
          Hi Rob,

          I have the same problem as you in connecting my newly purchased Miyajima Spirit mono cartridge with my Rhea Standard. I note that you have attached the connection manual provided to you by Aesthetix to fix this issue. However, it seems the link to the attachment is no longer valid. Could you please attach the manual again so that I can resolve the humming issue with my cartridge?

          Many thanks.

          Comment


          • #10
            These instructions were sent to me from Glen at Aesthetix. Keep in mind that IF you have a cartridge with a single mono coil it may offer a four pin output AND still bridge the pairs of +\- pins to their common partner internally (like the Miyajima Zero). In these cases you only need and want one pair of outputs from it. (as utilizing both will likely result in a ground hum depending... In the illustration below Aesthetix shows us how to do the rest. Cheers
            Last edited by DetroitVinylRob; 05-22-2019, 08:15 AM.
            Listening/Living room 25.5x14.5x8.5, modestly live & dynamic, Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12, Miyajima Zero, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz, Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Calypso & Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 XLR IC, Silent Source Music Ref mains, Atma-Sphere MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Elrod EPS-3 Sign power cables, Coincident PREt, PS Audio Premiere, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor

            Comment


            • #11
              Hi Rob,

              Thank you for providing the instructions. I tried the Y cable alternative where the ground wire in the left channel of the Y cable is not connected to the left channel of the RCA input of the Rhea (as per the instructions) but there is still ground hum. Would you be able to know where I have done it wrong? Do I have to disconnect any of the pins in the Miyajima cartridge (I am using the Spirit Mono)? My phonostage is the Aesthetix Rhea Standard (not sure if there is a difference in the internal wirings between the Rhea Standard and Rhea Signature).

              Comment


              • #12
                No diff between the standard Rhea and Rhea Signature except audio performance. They operate identically.

                If you have lifted one of the ground (-) output but still are employing both (+) outputs, this may be your problem. Try this other method. I realize it may seems a bit counter intuitive but you need:

                1. connect one (+/-) output from the cartridge (to avoid a ground loop).
                2. input that RCA to the right channel of INPUT #1 of Rhea.
                3. from Rhea OUTPUT run two RCA cables (to essentially feed a dual mono signal) to the LEFT and RIGHT INPUT of preamp #1 INPUT.
                Now when you play a mono recording you will have a true, pure two channel mono experience.

                But if you read back through this discussion I mentioned that the Miyajima Zero has a single coil, and is a true, pure mono devise, though they provide four pins, two (+) and two (-), internally bridged (electrically connected) between the (+) pins and likewise between the (-) pins. So consequently some step-up devises like the Rhea, see a ground loop when all four are in use. Just follow Glen's guideline of using one (+) and one (-) pin out to the Rhea.

                Problem solved! I like this arrangement because it allows me to select #1 on my Rhea and #1 on my Calypso to (logically) play MONO and then my balanced outputs/inputs are free to feed #2 (logically) for STEREO.

                I have no idea why Noriyuki Miyajima-San chooses to offer two (+/-) pins and bridge them internally and cause this possible quagmire. If it were a dual coil mono, I would expect it...

                Hope this is helpful. Happy Listening!
                Listening/Living room 25.5x14.5x8.5, modestly live & dynamic, Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12, Miyajima Zero, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz, Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Calypso & Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 XLR IC, Silent Source Music Ref mains, Atma-Sphere MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Elrod EPS-3 Sign power cables, Coincident PREt, PS Audio Premiere, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor

                Comment

                Working...
                X