Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Phono Cables: The Forgotten Link?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Phono Cables: The Forgotten Link?

    The link between the table and phono section often is an afterthought rather than fore thought for many. In fact, in an analog based system, this wire might be second in importance to AC cables. (Of course some people are locked in with captive phono cables.)l For example, how many people burn-in their tonearm and phono wire? Even with a line level signal much less something like the Cable Cooker. Those wires never really are fully broken in because of the low level signal and thus one may not be hearing all that your front-end can do.

    There are quite a few phono cables out there and one doesn't have to spend a fortune to get better sound. Audience makes a $1200 phono cable that is very good sounding. Of course, the skies the limit with products from Nordost, Transparent, MIT, etc. What's everyone favorite cable or what have you tried recently that has floated your boat?
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Hmm, another timely topic. I'll be watching this thread with great interest. Been talking to one of my dealers about a good phono cable. Much research to do...
    Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

    Comment


    • #3
      Ive been using silver DIY phono ICs from the tonearm to the headamp and from the headamp to the MM phonostage for about 10 yrs. I never burned in the cables. good point, I'll have to do something about this.
      Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
        Ive been using silver DIY phono ICs from the tonearm to the headamp and from the headamp to the MM phonostage for about 10 yrs. I never burned in the cables. good point, I'll have to do something about this.
        ​Has everyone else burned their phono cables in?
        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
        ________________________________________

        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
        -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

        Comment


        • #5
          Its an area that I put some attention to, my Rega RB 300´s are rewired with the Cardas Incognito wiring which together with VTAF and my own diy resonance dampening, this brings the tonearm up where it belongs.
          On my Thorens vintage 166 MK II, I have given it a new AC wire and Audio Note QQSC silver tonearm cable instead of the standard scap cable employed at the time, it moved the sound up, adding clarity, body to the sound.
          I am not afraid to make changes in this area, as many stock tonearms and turnables mostly come with cheap cables, and the sonic benefits can be very rewarding if you know what you are doing, but it can go very wrong, as I have experienced during time, but that's how you learn it the hard way, there is no other way.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by banditcat200 View Post
            Its an area that I put some attention to, my Rega RB 300´s are rewired with the Cardas Incognito wiring which together with VTAF and my own diy resonance dampening, this brings the tonearm up where it belongs.
            On my Thorens vintage 166 MK II, I have given it a new AC wire and Audio Note QQSC silver tonearm cable instead of the standard scap cable employed at the time, it moved the sound up, adding clarity, body to the sound.
            I am not afraid to make changes in this area, as many stock tonearms and turnables mostly come with cheap cables, and the sonic benefits can be very rewarding if you know what you are doing, but it can go very wrong, as I have experienced during time, but that's how you learn it the hard way, there is no other way.
            Very cool! I remember years ago getting an expensive arm in for review that used 50 cent wire inside.
            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
            ________________________________________

            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
            -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

            Comment


            • #7
              I use a Wywires Platinum Phono cable with my VPI turntable. I don't have much to compare it to but have been nothing but pleased with it. VPI also thinks highly of Alex Sventitsky (owner of Wywires) and he's been a pleasure to deal with thus far. Alex also mentioned to me the issue with the burn in problem and low level output of the line stage. Being I have RCA's on both ends, I burned my Phono cable using my CD player for 200 hours. Great advice on this, but I could be a problem if a phono cable isn't RCA on both ends.

              Comment


              • #8
                IMO, any discussion regarding the wire loom connecting your turntable should discuss the aggregate capacitance of the wire in the arm and - hopefully - the short run to the phono input of the preamp. If your favorite wire manufacture doesn't know this spec (picofarads in feet or meters) stay away. J. Carr of Lyra has developed their own very low capacitance phono cable set as have a few other designers. The better multi-meters can measure this, under 10 pf per foot is optimum.
                Simon Yorke S10 | My Sonic Lab Eminent GL | AcousticPlan PhonoMaster | Wadia X32 | Innuous ZEN Mini Mk II | Valvet Soulshine2 | LTA ZOTL10 MkII | Avantgarde Uno Fino XD

                "One of the great challenges of this world: Knowing enough about a subject to think you are right, but not enough about the subject to know you're wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

                Comment


                • #9
                  And keep the phono cable as short as possible, mine are 0.5 meter.
                  Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Any recommendations for a set of analog cables as I don't need a ground wire( I have 2 custom cables of those)?
                    Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rob View Post
                      IMO, any discussion regarding the wire loom connecting your turntable should discuss the aggregate capacitance of the wire in the arm and - hopefully - the short run to the phono input of the preamp. If your favorite wire manufacture doesn't know this spec (picofarads in feet or meters) stay away. J. Carr of Lyra has developed their own very low capacitance phono cable set as have a few other designers. The better multi-meters can measure this, under 10 pf per foot is optimum.
                      That's good to know. Didn't know of this spec, but just looked at my Wywires phono cable and it is 7.9pF.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post
                        Any recommendations for a set of analog cables as I don't need a ground wire( I have 2 custom cables of those)?
                        My Wywires phono cable meets the recommend pF spec recommended above (7.9pF). I would give Alex a call at Wywires and he should be able to make you a pair to your needs without the ground wire. If you call, feel free to say I referred you (david fischer). You also get a 30day guarantee so if you don't like them, you can send them back for a refund. Here is the site with the phone number if you call: http://www.wywires.com Best of luck.
                        Last edited by Analog21; 04-28-2016, 09:54 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Imo, the phono cable should be "in one piece" from the cartridge to the phono stage. You just have to be careful which one you choose in the first place, if that option exists. Kuzma for instance, is offering various cables with some of his tonearms. If you buy 4Point 14 inch, you can choose between Cristal Cable, Cardas Clear or some other high quality cable. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000080.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	248.2 KB
ID:	12802


                          As some of you know, Kuzma also offers unique "bi-wiring" option with the 4point tonearms so you can have one wire from the cartridge to the phono stage or you can add any other phono cable if you wish. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000050.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	79.7 KB
ID:	12804


                          I always burn-in "phono cables" with the Hagerman Technologies, The Frycleaner Pro for 100 hours in the medium position and "the sound of the tonearm" is very consistent afterwards. I haven't tried to "reburn" cables after a year or so but considering very low level signals passing trough it, I guess this process should have some positive sonic consequences. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1000173.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	235.7 KB
ID:	12803
                          Last edited by Marcus; 04-29-2016, 05:34 AM.
                          Source: Kuzma XL DC/4Point 14 inch/CAR60; Phono: Zanden 1200 Mk3; Tuner: Magnum Dynalab MD-108T Signature; Line Stage: Zanden 3000 Mk2; Power amp: conrad-johnson ART monos; Speakers: AlsyVox Botticelli; Grounding: Tripoint Troy Elite NG/Emperor Mk2; Cable system: Cardas Clear Beyond; Stands: Finite Elemente Master Reference & Master Reference Heavy Duty; Power strip: Cardas Nautilus; Acoustics treatment: Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT);

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Analog21 View Post
                            I use a Wywires Platinum Phono cable with my VPI turntable. I don't have much to compare it to but have been nothing but pleased with it. VPI also thinks highly of Alex Sventitsky (owner of Wywires) and he's been a pleasure to deal with thus far. Alex also mentioned to me the issue with the burn in problem and low level output of the line stage. Being I have RCA's on both ends, I burned my Phono cable using my CD player for 200 hours. Great advice on this, but I could be a problem if a phono cable isn't RCA on both ends.
                            Don't forget the wires in inside the arm either. That's where things like the Nordost or Cable Cooker comes in! Or even just jury rigging a tuner or cd player to the cartridge clips like I used to do years ago.
                            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                            ________________________________________

                            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                            -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
                              And keep the phono cable as short as possible, mine are 0.5 meter.
                              That would be great but not doable for most folks.
                              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                              ________________________________________

                              -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                              -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                              -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X