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  • Fry On: Burn-in and burn-in generators

    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

    Absolutely agree. I made an adapter with a short piece of "Sony wire" and pins from a broken cartridge and use Hagerman burn-in generator.

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    From the "What Phono Cables are You Using With Your Tonearm?" thread.


    Okay - now I'm inspired. Thanks to Marcus' excellent pictures I'm convinced that building a cable to attach my tone-arm clips is something I can do. I'm just waiting for the parts to arrive from Parts Connexxion. And I found a nice 'how-to" with more pictures at Take Five Audio.

    My 4Point is a little more than a year old and my ARC Ref 10 Phono is still new since December. I know the RP10 isn't broken-in and will bet the 4Point wire is not either. I was smart enough (lucky) to get the 4Point with the terminal box that passes through its integral tone arm cable while also having a pair of female RCAs for adding your own. And I'm now thinking of getting a new phono cable. (At this point, perhaps an Odin 2, thanks to comments and reviews from Fred (fcrowder) and Marc Mickelson.) So several things to burn-in, all starting at the cartridge clips. You know where this is going...

    The "What Phono Cables..." thread mentioned Alan Krafton's Cable Cooker and the Hagerman device (currently FryBaby2), The former is a bit more expensive ($1000-$1360) but it does more. The latter ($230) doesn't handle power cords. ==> If you have experience with either of these devices I'd appreciate any comments or advices you can share.

    Suggestions, comments, advice most welcome. I do know about playing a burn-in disk/CD (Granite Audio, etc.)



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    Interesting article: Breaking in cables and components

  • #2
    I do hear changes in warming up my stuff
    I do hear changes in varying cables be it speaker cables or interconnects.
    Digital cables as well no doubt.
    But breaking in cables is way above my small brain
    while I don't say others are wrong I think the same group that uses stands for the devices for a number of reasons as a drain or isolation must hear what I don't.
    when I built my room for a short while my kitchen entrance was bricked up. Only a small hole used for cables was between my speakers and equipment.
    The brick wall was brick and block plus installation.
    that is right behind my speakers was used for all equipment. When I moved it to the front as it is now. The only change was on SE cable length. Once I converted to balanced I cannot say anything changed.
    Can anyone explain why using our interconnects matters meaning what changes ? Besides the sound some claim.
    Sorry for this.
    Last edited by Alrainbow; 02-24-2017, 07:55 PM. Reason: Not proof reading sorry guys and gals
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
      I do hear changes in warming up my stuff
      I do hear changes in varying cables be it speaker cables or or interconnects.
      Digital cables as well no doubt.
      But breaking in cables is way above my small brain
      while I don't say others are wrong I think the same group that uses stands for the devices for a. Umber of reasons as it drain or isolation
      when I built my room for a shirt while my kitchen entrance
      that is right behind my speakers was used for all equipment. When I moved it to in front other then MEER ing s lesson on SE cabke length I cannot say anything changed. Can anyone explain why using our interconnects matters meaning what changes ? Besides the sound come claim.
      Dear Al, could you please proofread this post (and maybe your other posts). I think you are saying things that are valuable. However, I have a very hard time understanding what they are. For example, the last three lines, starting with "built my room for a shirt", are difficult to follow. Thanks, Larry
      Analog- VPIClassic3-3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeroMono, 2xAmpex ATR-102,Doshi3.0,Merrill Trident Master Tape Pre,Herron VTPH-2A
      Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,Mykerinos,PacMicroModel2
      Dig Play-mchNADAC, LampiPac, Roon, HQP, Oppo105
      Electronics-Doshi Pre,CJ MET1mchPre, Cary2A3monoamps
      Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
      Other-2x512Engineer/Marutani Symmetrical Power, AudioDiskVinylCleaner,AirTightRecordFlat, Scott Rust Interconnects,
      Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1.3KR2Rtapes,50TBrips

      Comment


      • #4
        Very diplomatic Larry, as usual.

        Does anyone have comments or suggestions on burn-in generators ? Tia.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've had an Audio Dharma cable cooker for over 5 years now. Improves all cable connections primarily by reducing the noise floor. Sonic result is much more clarity, ability to hear deeper into soundstage "to the back wall" and a bit more more leading edge definition. I also used it for burning in big Duelund Cast Pio parts in a crossover after it had been used for over 500 hours but wouldn't open up. In other words, sonic improvements are still possible even for well used ICs, tonearm cable, PCs and parts. It's worth re-burning in ever 4 to 6 months or so to restore the effect and is not a one-time benefit. Sounds like a cliche, but you really haven't heard what your cables sound like till you tried one of these. I'm a big fan.

          Comment


          • #6
            Excellent topic tima.

            Seems like the tonearm cable/wire is something that would never become burned in given the terribly tiny amount of signal strength it sees in a lifetime of listening. I believe this may be a hugely unrealized tweaking.

            I have an AudioDharma on the way. I’ve also used Hagerman’s Frybaby2, and the reverse RIAA for phono stages. The later was recommended by Jim White of Aesthetix with great success. I’ve had really good results with burn-in conditioning in general, so very pain filled without these devices on analogue systems.

            Recently I’ve discovered information about the possible differences between voltage and current conditioning. Not sure I understand this completely.
            Living-Listening room 1100sq (modestly lively): Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12 >Miyajima Zero, Graham Phantom III >DynaVector Te Kaitora Rua, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz >Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 ICs, Silent Source Music Ref/Shunyata NR, CX Anaconda/Elrod EPS-3 Sign mains, Atma-Sphere MP1 & MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Classic Audio T3.4 full voice coiled, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor, REL S812 (pair)

            Comment


            • #7
              I did make a cartridge clips --to--> RCAs interface cable similar to what Marcus made (first photo, above) and used it with a Hagerman FryBaby 2 to put burn-in time on my 4Point 'arm cable. This did yield a subtle but audible difference, with sound a bit smoother and more open. I took this as an improvement.

              I've seen commentary that burn-in with these type devices is not permanent and should be repeated at some frequency (a la Barry, above.) I've not heard any explanation about what is the burn-in process or why its effect is temporary.

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              • DetroitVinylRob
                DetroitVinylRob commented
                Editing a comment
                Perhaps it is the dielectric holding short term energy. On Jeff’s Place, he eludes to the possibility from his experience.

                I would suspect that air dielectric cabling sees far less or non of this condition. I’m presently experimenting... we’ll see.

                http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=12035

              • MylesBAstor
                MylesBAstor commented
                Editing a comment
                I find that even after burning in, it may take say 24 hrs of playing for things to settle in.

                Of course, some of that may be caused by moving, twisting or bending the cable. You’ll find focus and transparency are better placing the cables back in the system and letting them sit undisturbed.

            • #8
              I picked up the Fry Corder & the Fry Baby2 Last year when I was breaking in some pro audio speakers & also used them on new interconnects, speaker & power cords. I agree with DVRob that the dielectric interaction will vary wildly depending on cable construction, manufacturer pre beak-in or not, and even your unique local room variables related to rfi/emi environment, grounding & power implementations & construction. Sorry there is no definitive answer. I do complete system frequency sweeps with the Fry Baby2 while I'm away for a time as I can't exercise my system like that at regular listening levels.

              Several years ago I had the Audio Dharma (pre sweep capable) unit and sold it after enjoying it.

              I also have had the Hag Labs RIAA board to condition phono cables with diy phono cable in the past. Because of their smaller gauge, I would be careful running too much current through whatever phono arm cabling you have. The manufacturer may have some advise on that relating to their specific product gauge & construction. Hag Labs would be able to tell you what the current output would be in that mode if that is what you're thinking of using for.

              Comment


              • #9
                Does anyone understand the usefulness/protocol of voltage mode burn-in as opposed to current burn-in? Which apparently the Hagerman FryBaby2 is capable of.
                Living-Listening room 1100sq (modestly lively): Brinkmann Balance w/RöNT II PS, HRS, Reed P3-12 >Miyajima Zero, Graham Phantom III >DynaVector Te Kaitora Rua, Avid Acutus SP, SME V w/Kondo fairyhair silver litz >Lyra Kleos, Linn Sondek LP12 w/Ittok LVII, Nakamichi ZX-7, SCD-XA5400ES, Aesthetix Rhea Signatures, Nordost TYR Norse 2 ICs, Silent Source Music Ref/Shunyata NR, CX Anaconda/Elrod EPS-3 Sign mains, Atma-Sphere MP1 & MA1 Mk.3.4 OTL Silver Edition monoblocks, Classic Audio T3.4 full voice coiled, Yamamoto racks, SMARTractor, REL S812 (pair)

                Comment


                • Spla'nin
                  Spla'nin commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I believe Jeff Day had some observations he made on his cable experiments. Again they appear to be dependent on cable construction, system which in they are tested, personal tastes etc. He used both if memory serves ..

                  http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/

              • #10
                "Several years ago I had the Audio Dharma (pre sweep capable) unit and sold it after enjoying it."

                Just a slight correction re: the sweep. From its inception, the audiodharma Cable Cooker included a frequency sweep in its multiplex output signal. In the original version 2.0, the frequency sweep calibration was approx. 40Hz to 15.5KHz. With version 2.5, the sweep was extended to 18.5KHz. In mid-2009, with a major board revision, the sweep was more than doubled, from 0Hz to just over 40KHz. All subsequent production of later 2.5's, version 3.0, and now version 3.5 (introduced in early 2011) contain this Extended Frequency Sweep. Also note that with multiple harmonics on top of the fundamentals, the bandwidth extends into the megahertz region.

                Comment


                • #11
                  For those interested in learning more about the Cable Cooker, you are welcome to visit the website http://www.thecablecooker.com. The FAQ page offers good operational information, with some discussion on conditioning times and various products (other than cabling) that the unit is capable of treating. And as always, everyone is welcome to contact me directly (and discreetly) at "[email protected]" or at 602-277-0799 with any specific questions. No strings....just good information.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    One last thing....as the bulk of this thread features the conditioning of tonearm wiring, members could ask Myles Astor about his use of the audiodharma tonearm wire/phono cable adaptor for this very purpose. I've been making this adaptor for use with the Cable Cooker for over 16 years. Not only will it condition DIN-terminated phono cables on their own, but it's designed to condition the tonearm wiring from the headshell leads all the way to the phono stage/preamplifier, including one's phono cables, simultaneously.

                    Comment


                    • DetroitVinylRob
                      DetroitVinylRob commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Hi Alan, looking forward to my CC from you and starting my regimen.

                  • #13
                    Okey, Dokey. Got the 4Pt 9" and since I couldn't sleep last night (have a cold or maybe creeping insanity), I took the entire turntable apart, removed everything from the Minus K, recentered the HRS plinth (already TMI!) and got everything set up with two tone arm towers and the Airline and the 4 Point. I mounted the Jade in the 4 Pt just to see how it sounds compared to the Airline. (Cartridge isn't broken in and tone arm is right out of the box).
                    I figured (<this is a Texanism, one could also say "I'm fixin' to...") I'd try to do the tonearm cable burn in thing.
                    So, I have cobbled together some parts that should arrive tomorrow (Next Day Shipping Free!) that will ultimately give me alligator clips to RCA male. So my plan is to remove the cartridge from the tone arm cable, hook up my Rube Goldberg wiring harness from CD to tonearm wires burn that in running a few insane CDs for a while, outputting the tonearm RCAs into a line stage input. Current v voltage? Time? Staged cycles? I don't have a 'burn in' CD as such but have some recordings on CD that are pretty intense. Output from CD is actually output from DAC and no volume control on that --so is there harm from over loading the fine tone arm wires? (I can check to see what the norm is on output of these things, my digital wizardry is comparable to my IT skills).

                    What say you (youse which is plural in certain parts of NY/NJ metro)?

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                    Last edited by Bill Hart; 04-06-2019, 06:21 PM.

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                    • #14
                      Should work for you Bill. Give it 8hrs then 4 at a time and try. I found you can over cook your cables just like your steak. I love that Kuzma table.

                      I have had good results with the AudioDharma cooker. I know that based on my results that Kafton received two orders from my group. So it was not just my ears.

                      Good luck.

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                      Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
                      Brinkmann Balance & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
                      Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
                      Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
                      Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2
                      Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

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                      • #15
                        Originally posted by kcin View Post
                        Should work for you Bill. Give it 8hrs then 4 at a time and try. I found you can over cook your cables just like your steak. I love that Kuzma table.

                        I have had good results with the AudioDharma cooker. I know that based on my results that Kafton received two orders from my group. So it was not just my ears.

                        Good luck.

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                        Many thanks. I'm not sure if I'm hearing the wire or the difference in arms- the Airline has this very open quality, not as much 'thwack'- this sounds a little more closed in and etched although the bass is bombastic. Which tells me that the Jade is going back on the Airline and the Airtight is getting mounted on the 4 Point. That was the plan anyway, but I'm curious to advance the process, whatever the eventual differences shake out to be.
                        Appreciated (or as they say here, 'we 'ppreciate ya''), Nick.

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                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Guest commented
                          Editing a comment
                          sounds like your new locale is just starting to burn-in. ;-)

                        • Bill Hart
                          Bill Hart commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Love it here- perfect size for a city, lots to do, if it just weren't so damn hot in the summer. Lot's of good people and fun here, though. Kind of an audio waste land, but some pretty heavy systems here among private citizens.....
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