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SME 3009 vs M2-9r

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  • SME 3009 vs M2-9r

    I'm acquiring a high(er) mass arm for certain carts that don't play well with the arms under 9g effective mass. The M2 specs show 9.5g, I'm assuming its with the standard headshell. I want to avoid adding mass at the headshell to increase overall EF. My understanding is the previous version of the M2 (3009 series) have specific models with higher mass and/or interchangeable arm wands. Which models should i look for? The table is an Oracle and will only accommodate a 9 incher.
    TURNTABLE TechDAS Airforce III | TONEARM Graham Phantom III | CARTRIDGES ZYX Omega X SB2 + Lyra Etna SL | PHONO STAGE Boulder 1008 | DIGITAL Innuos MiniZen II + M2Tech Young + Palmer PS | LINE STAGE Boulder 810 | AMPLIFIERS Boulder 850 Monos | SPEAKERS Magico A5 | RACK Adona Eris 6DW | CABLES Mogami + Canare

  • #2
    I can't comment on the SME arms - I had a 3009 Mk2 and a SME IV, but that's it!

    I used a Koetsu SA-1100D on my Delphi without any issues - that's (more or less) a 10" arm. IIRC, effective mass was 18g.

    DIY TT w/ Transrotor mech, Roksan Tabriz Zi, SAE 1000LT
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    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      good data point, i've since found out the sme 3010 will also fit a Delphi.

  • #3
    Contact Alfred at www.smetonearms.com he is knowledgeable with the different models.
    Jeff Whitlock
    A/V Solutions

    www.avsolutionsca.com

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    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      thanks

  • #4
    Click image for larger version

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    My Early version 3009
    Last edited by A/V Solutions; 05-18-2016, 01:35 PM.
    Jeff Whitlock
    A/V Solutions

    www.avsolutionsca.com

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    • david k
      david k commented
      Editing a comment
      A highly modified series II version.
      david
      Last edited by david k; 05-18-2016, 07:18 PM.

  • #5
    Is the 3009 basically a 9" version of the 12" 3012 or is it a completely different animal?
    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mono) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

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    • david k
      david k commented
      Editing a comment
      They're the same arm in different lengths but there are different versions of each.
      david

  • #6
    Originally posted by Rob View Post
    I'm acquiring a high(er) mass arm for certain carts that don't play well with the arms under 9g effective mass. The M2 specs show 9.5g, I'm assuming its with the standard headshell. I want to avoid adding mass at the headshell to increase overall EF. My understanding is the previous version of the M2 (3009 series) have specific models with higher mass and/or interchangeable arm wands. Which models should i look for? The table is an Oracle and will only accommodate a 9 incher.
    The version you want is the 3009-R with the stainless tube earlier Series II arms had light aluminum tubes. Its the headshell that's interchangeable in SME 30xx arms and not wands. There's also the FR-64s if you're looking for higher mass.

    No comparison between the 3009-R and the M2, the older arm is sonically superior.

    david
    Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
    Distribution: NEODIO

    Special Sales: van den Hul
    Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

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    http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
    http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

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    • #7
      Originally posted by david k View Post

      The version you want is the 3009-R with the stainless tube earlier Series II arms had light aluminum tubes. Its the headshell that's interchangeable in SME 30xx arms and not wands. There's also the FR-64s if you're looking for higher mass.

      No comparison between the 3009-R and the M2, the older arm is sonically superior.

      david
      David, thanks for the info. I read somewhere the Series I, 3009 is the most prized of the higher mass variety and was the version spec'd by Neumann back in the day for playback of studio lacquers.

      How does one evaluate these older arms for wear and service issues, I understand they use knife edge bearings with different metallurgy which wear with time. Thoughts?
      TURNTABLE TechDAS Airforce III | TONEARM Graham Phantom III | CARTRIDGES ZYX Omega X SB2 + Lyra Etna SL | PHONO STAGE Boulder 1008 | DIGITAL Innuos MiniZen II + M2Tech Young + Palmer PS | LINE STAGE Boulder 810 | AMPLIFIERS Boulder 850 Monos | SPEAKERS Magico A5 | RACK Adona Eris 6DW | CABLES Mogami + Canare

      Comment


      • #8
        Originally posted by Rob View Post

        David, thanks for the info. I read somewhere the Series I, 3009 is the most prized of the higher mass variety and was the version spec'd by Neumann back in the day for playback of studio lacquers.

        How does one evaluate these older arms for wear and service issues, I understand they use knife edge bearings with different metallurgy which wear with time. Thoughts?
        Series I, 3012 is the one which collectors are after the 3009/1, not as much. I don't recommend a Series 1 if you're not a collector. 3009-R which is the S2 improved is the one to get, both sonically and ergonomically the best one for me. Just be aware that there are parts arms and some that are highly modified, avoid those completely, original ex-factory ones are the best. 3009-R came either with a nylon or a steel knife edge bearing, both sound very good, just slightly different. I haven't seen any S1, S2, S2 bearing steel bearing with wear, they're either in original condition or damaged from abuse.

        david
        Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
        Distribution: NEODIO

        Special Sales: van den Hul
        Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

        Unique Items: Vintage Horn Speakers
        http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
        http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

        Comment


        • #9
          On David's (aka Darth Karmeli) recommendation I bought a 3012R and I was impressed so much so I bought a second one and most of my other arms went up for up for sale. If it were not me purchasing another table, but that is another story, would probably have my third one. I have put it up against some highly regarded arms and it has always beaten them......funny thing it works with almost any cartridge from an Ortofon SPU to a Shure V-15. So I sold most of my other arms with no regrets.
          I had been on a frustrating search for a good arm for years and finally this is it................

          All hail the Great Karmeli !

          Comment


          • david k
            david k commented
            Editing a comment
            So I must be the potato emperor of the universe 😈!

          • jam
            jam commented
            Editing a comment
            We are all potatoes you just happen to be the leader. We have to find you a new avatar...........

        • #10
          Originally posted by jam View Post
          On David's (aka Darth Karmeli) recommendation I bought a 3012R and I was impressed so much so I bought a second one and most of my other arms went up for up for sale. If it were not me purchasing another table, but that is another story, would probably have my third one. I have put it up against some highly regarded arms and it has always beaten them......funny thing it works with almost any cartridge from an Ortofon SPU to a Shure V-15. So I sold most of my other arms with no regrets.
          I had been on a frustrating search for a good arm for years and finally this is it................

          All hail the Great Karmeli !
          thanks for sparing us the audiophile pablum as to why newer/older is always better. I'm a soon to be convert I have a NOS SME 3009 ser II enroute, I'm on my way to attaining Sotapanna
          TURNTABLE TechDAS Airforce III | TONEARM Graham Phantom III | CARTRIDGES ZYX Omega X SB2 + Lyra Etna SL | PHONO STAGE Boulder 1008 | DIGITAL Innuos MiniZen II + M2Tech Young + Palmer PS | LINE STAGE Boulder 810 | AMPLIFIERS Boulder 850 Monos | SPEAKERS Magico A5 | RACK Adona Eris 6DW | CABLES Mogami + Canare

          Comment


          • david k
            david k commented
            Editing a comment
            Series II or Series II Improved, i.e. the R version? As I explained before Series II is the light weight version with the aluminum arm tube.
            david

          • Rob
            Rob commented
            Editing a comment
            I believe its the R but I'll double check. Thanks for commenting, I don't want the **light** version.

        • #11
          Rob,

          May you then attain Sakadagami with no detours....................

          Last edited by jam; 05-30-2016, 08:37 PM.

          Comment


          • #12
            David,

            I found you a new avatar..........you could be emperor and king.

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