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  • Ultrasonic Record Cleaners

    I'm kicking around the idea of selling my current cleaner and adding an Ultrasonic cleaner.
    How well do they work, how quiet are they? I'm mostly worried in how well will it clean records.
    Any one out there who have tried one i'm interested in your opinion.
    https://www.amazon.com/iSonic-P4875I...010350&sr=8-44
    Amp-McIntosh MC501x2,ATI 2505,ATI 1505,Innersound amp
    Preamp-McIntosh c2200,Marantz AV7005
    Phono Pre-Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE
    Speakers-Innersound Eros w/new panels and woofers,
    Von Schweikert VR4 HSE,Paradigm 80's 60's and CC350
    Crossover-DBX Venu 360
    Analog-VPI Scoutmaster Hana SL,2-Sony APR 5003,Revox B77
    Digital-Sony SCD XA5400ES, JRIVER Media Center
    Wadia DI122 DAC
    Subs-2 Velodyne HGS10's,2 Velodyne 1200's
    Tuner-Revox B760 McIntosh MR74 Sony XDR F1HD
    JVC Projector,Draper electric 92" screen
    Room dedicated 27'x16'x10', Bass traps
    VPI 17 record cleaning machine

  • #2
    I don’t believe you have a wide array of ultrasonic RCMs to consider. KLAudio is out of biz. I own one and I love it. I’d steer clear of early production runs because they had problems. The one that remains is Audiodesk Pro. I believe there were problems with it in its earlier days as well. They resolved those problems and named the improved version AD Pro. I was a very good friend of the maker of the V8 which was sold on Audiogon only. He died last year and so did his machine. The Kirmuss and I believe the Clearaudio unit are a combination of ultrasonic and non US cleaning. There are designs you can get to make your own if you are DIY kind of guy. The KLA and the AD Pro are the only ones which clean and dry the record for hands free operation. In general they aren’t quiet enough to run in the same room at the same time you play music. You might not want to sell your current machine if you decide to buy one of the US units that doesn’t include drying. The KLA did not remove grease or finger prints. I don’t know about the others in which case you might still want your old unit around for those occasions.
    TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter matte & weight; Arcam R Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

    Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

    VTL 6.5 preamp Series II
    Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

    Piega C711 Loudspeakers

    Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

    Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator, Synergistic Research 12 UEF SE Line Conditioner, Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cords, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates, Synergistic Research Orange & Outlet, Furutech NCF Booster Braces, Audio Art Ref balanced IC, MIT Oracle IC, Synergistic Research Euphoria Level 3 Speaker Cables, Synergistic Research Cable Risers.

    Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD800s Headphones.

    Comment


    • #3
      I’ve had an Audio Desk Pro for about 2 years and recently got a Degritter. IMO the Degritter does a significantly better job. But in either case after the ultrasonic cleaning I do a final rinse with Audio Intelligent Ultra Pure Water rinse in a VPI Cyclone, which I find essential.
      Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
      Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
      Tube Amplifier: New Audio Frontiers Ultimate 211 Special Edition Monoblocks
      SS Amplifier: Plinius SA-Reference
      Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
      Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
      Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
      Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge (w/ EM/IA 1:20 Silver Wire SUT)
      Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
      Vinyl Care: Furutech DF-2 LP Flattener - Degritter Ultrasonic & VPI Cyclone RCM
      Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
      Tape Stage: Doshi V.3 Tape Stage
      CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5
      Streamer/Server: Aurender N20 to Bricasti M1 DAC, EtherREGEN, Farad Super3 PS w/ Level 2 DC Cable, Sablon Audio Ethernet Cable
      Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
      Wire: Custom Furutech PC's + Audience Front Row IC's & Speaker Cables
      Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - DS Audio ION-001 Vinyl Ionizer - SRA Scuttle III Rack, SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

      Comment


      • #4
        Second worth exploring Degritter. I have had mine since mid-summer and have yet to use my previous cleaner....VPI HW-17.
        Avalon Time, Walker Proscenium, Koetsu Coralstone, Air Tight PC-1 Supreme, Goldfinger Statement, Dalby record weight, Kondo KSL-SFz step-up, Jadis JP80-MC...heavily modified, Convergent Audio JL-2 Black Path, Sony NS999 ES Modwright modded, full loom High Fidelity Ultimate cables, Rel S-5 sub, Stillpoints ultra and 5's, Shun Mook, Dalby footers, Critical Mass bases, Acoustic System Resonators, Magnum Dynalab Etude, Telefunkens throughout, assorted fuses, Furutech outlets, PurePower conditioner.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 1morerecord2clean View Post
          I don’t believe you have a wide array of ultrasonic RCMs to consider. KLAudio is out of biz. I own one and I love it. I’d steer clear of early production runs because they had problems. The one that remains is Audiodesk Pro. I believe there were problems with it in its earlier days as well. They resolved those problems and named the improved version AD Pro. I was a very good friend of the maker of the V8 which was sold on Audiogon only. He died last year and so did his machine. The Kirmuss and I believe the Clearaudio unit are a combination of ultrasonic and non US cleaning. There are designs you can get to make your own if you are DIY kind of guy. The KLA and the AD Pro are the only ones which clean and dry the record for hands free operation. In general they aren’t quiet enough to run in the same room at the same time you play music. You might not want to sell your current machine if you decide to buy one of the US units that doesn’t include drying. The KLA did not remove grease or finger prints. I don’t know about the others in which case you might still want your old unit around for those occasions.
          Don’t forget about the Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional. I’ve owned one for a few years. It is easy to use and very effective. And, it remains in production.

          Comment


          • jonathanb
            jonathanb commented
            Editing a comment
            Scott, when I owned the CA, I found that it did a mediocre job on the bottom side of the record and usually left it slightly damp. I got better results from a VPI HW-17. I get best results using the HW-17 in combination with my KL Audio machine

          • Ritmo
            Ritmo commented
            Editing a comment
            Jonathan - Did you have the CA checked? Mine works flawlessly.

          • Dre_J
            Dre_J commented
            Editing a comment
            Same here. I've had no issues using with the CA Double Matrix Professional Sonic or the Klaudio or the Kirmuss.

        • #6
          Originally posted by russe41 View Post
          I'm kicking around the idea of selling my current cleaner and adding an Ultrasonic cleaner.
          How well do they work, how quiet are they? I'm mostly worried in how well will it clean records.
          Any one out there who have tried one i'm interested in your opinion.
          https://www.amazon.com/iSonic-P4875I...010350&sr=8-44
          Which RCM do you use now?
          Simon Yorke + Zyx + B.M.C .> Soulution > Boulder > Magico

          "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

          Comment


          • #7
            The thing that they do not tell you about Ultrasonic cleaning machines is that they are not designed for everyday cleaning. An Ultrasonic cleaner is a restoration machine and my Kirmuss cleaner does a great job restoring LPs to pristine condition.

            The thing that does not make them easy to use as an everyday cleaner is the way that the tank water must be used. Changing the water and keeping it in usable condition makes the ultrasonic cleaner difficult to use as an everyday machine. You need a supply of distilled water (in my case 2 gallons per tankful) and a bit of isopropyl alcohol to create the tank water. After the cleaning is done the tank must be drained and the water may need to be disposed of depending on how dirty the water gets.

            I find that the water can be used a couple of times before needing to be disposed of. Fortunately distilled water is cheap but you need to know about the tank water before you start to consider the ultrasonic machine. It is a stumbling block if you want to use the ultrasonic machine as an everyday cleaner.

            That is why I consider my ultrasonic cleaner as a restoration machine. I use my VPI MW-1 for everyday cleaning and the Kirmuss for cleaning troublesome LPs.

            Ed
            Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
            https://www.edsstuff.org

            Analog: Walnut VPI Prime TT, HRX Pulley + 3 Belt Drive + ADS, Dual Pivot Assy, Tru Lift, HW-40 Feet
            Analog 2: Ortofon Windfeld Ti + Bob's Devices VPI Sky 30 Stepup + Liberty Audio B2B-1, Stereo Squares Dust Cover, Wayne's Audio Peripheral Ring
            Analog Care: VPI MW-1, Kirmuss KA-RC-1, Record Doctor V, Hunt EDA VI Brush, AQ Brush, Discwasher Record Care Kit
            Digital: TASCAM UH-7000 USB Interface, Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai Universal Disc Player, NAD C448 Internet Radio/Streamer
            Digital 2: Digital Audio Workstation (Toshiba P75-A7200 w/MS Windows 10, 24GB RAM, 1.5 TB Crucial MX300 SSD Internal Storage, Intel i7-4700MQ Processor)

            Amp: Rogue RP-9 Line Preamp, Schiit Loki Tone Ctrls, Parasound A21 Power Amp
            Speakers: Magnepan MMC2, REL T9/i Subwoofer
            Headphones: Stax SR L700 MkII + Woo Audio GES, Focal Clear + Schiit Lyr 2, Stax Lambda Pro + SRM1 Mk II
            Wires: Kimber Hero ICs, Kimber 8TC Speaker Cables, AQ Leopard Phono IC, Pangea Silver USB Cables, StraightWire Expressivo ICs
            Power: Furman Elite 15 PFi

            Comment


            • #8
              I guess it depends on which machine you use. My ultrasonic is used a couple time per week. It is DIY and is continually filtering the solution while cleaning.

              I guess what I am saying is that the ultrasonic method of cleaning doesn’t, per se, prevent it from being an every day cleaner. What may is the design of the ones commercially available.
              Last edited by dminches; 10-31-2020, 03:04 PM.
              Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio V3 Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS; Durand Telos and SME 3012R Tonearms, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Miyajima Zero; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810; Studer A812; Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC> Lampizator Pacific

              Comment


              • #9
                Rob, I use the VPI 17
                Amp-McIntosh MC501x2,ATI 2505,ATI 1505,Innersound amp
                Preamp-McIntosh c2200,Marantz AV7005
                Phono Pre-Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE
                Speakers-Innersound Eros w/new panels and woofers,
                Von Schweikert VR4 HSE,Paradigm 80's 60's and CC350
                Crossover-DBX Venu 360
                Analog-VPI Scoutmaster Hana SL,2-Sony APR 5003,Revox B77
                Digital-Sony SCD XA5400ES, JRIVER Media Center
                Wadia DI122 DAC
                Subs-2 Velodyne HGS10's,2 Velodyne 1200's
                Tuner-Revox B760 McIntosh MR74 Sony XDR F1HD
                JVC Projector,Draper electric 92" screen
                Room dedicated 27'x16'x10', Bass traps
                VPI 17 record cleaning machine

                Comment


                • #10
                  I've decided to go the route of a Kirmuss and an Okki Nokki. I'll clean it on the Okki Nokki using something like Audio Intelligent cleaner then give it the Kirmuss treatment and then a vacuum on the Okki Nokki.

                  For anyone interested on an in-depth review of the Kirmuss and how the author modified the rather involved Kirmuss recommended cleaning method read here:

                  https://theaudiophileman.com/kirmuss...-review-part1/ . He compares it to the Audiodesk which he also reviewed.

                  I believe the modified Kirmuss by Upscale Audio which will do 3 lps at a time instead of 2 is currently on sale for $999. The Kirmuss is basically a modified Codyson US bath that can be purchased on Ali Express for about $300 USD (w/o the lid that contains the record turning gizmo of course).
                  "I'm...a rather simple person with a limited talent and perhaps a limited perspective"...Bill Evans

                  LP playback: Ariston RD 11 Superieur, Audiomods Series 6 Tonearm, Dynavector DV DRT XV-1s, Valab LCR MkIII, Target wall-mounted turntable shelf

                  Amplification: Luxman L-550A II

                  Speakers: B&W Nautilus 805 on sand-filled Atacama stands, B&W ASW600 subs (stacked 2x2)

                  Cabling: inexpensive knockoff interconnects, Audio Sensibility Testaments (spkr)

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    One of the reasons that brought me to the link I listed in the original post is this machine has label protection for
                    all the labels(plastic disc with o-ring).
                    Amp-McIntosh MC501x2,ATI 2505,ATI 1505,Innersound amp
                    Preamp-McIntosh c2200,Marantz AV7005
                    Phono Pre-Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE
                    Speakers-Innersound Eros w/new panels and woofers,
                    Von Schweikert VR4 HSE,Paradigm 80's 60's and CC350
                    Crossover-DBX Venu 360
                    Analog-VPI Scoutmaster Hana SL,2-Sony APR 5003,Revox B77
                    Digital-Sony SCD XA5400ES, JRIVER Media Center
                    Wadia DI122 DAC
                    Subs-2 Velodyne HGS10's,2 Velodyne 1200's
                    Tuner-Revox B760 McIntosh MR74 Sony XDR F1HD
                    JVC Projector,Draper electric 92" screen
                    Room dedicated 27'x16'x10', Bass traps
                    VPI 17 record cleaning machine

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by russe41 View Post
                      Rob, I use the VPI 17
                      the hw17 is a great multi-purpose machine for daily use. not knowing what % of used vs new vinyl you collect, IMO having an US machine isn't crucial if you only buy new records. US is a 'one and done' process for deep cleaning dirty records, you shouldn't have to subject any record to multiple US cleanings. In conjunction with US I use a point suction RCM (Loricraft) for post cleaning and touch ups. your HW17 is perfect in that application Id hang on to it and add a DIY US machine or a turnkey alternative.
                      Simon Yorke + Zyx + B.M.C .> Soulution > Boulder > Magico

                      "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        If I throw in Classical I have about 30k records, I collect 50's till 70's jazz mostly though, with used making up 80% or higher.
                        Amp-McIntosh MC501x2,ATI 2505,ATI 1505,Innersound amp
                        Preamp-McIntosh c2200,Marantz AV7005
                        Phono Pre-Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE
                        Speakers-Innersound Eros w/new panels and woofers,
                        Von Schweikert VR4 HSE,Paradigm 80's 60's and CC350
                        Crossover-DBX Venu 360
                        Analog-VPI Scoutmaster Hana SL,2-Sony APR 5003,Revox B77
                        Digital-Sony SCD XA5400ES, JRIVER Media Center
                        Wadia DI122 DAC
                        Subs-2 Velodyne HGS10's,2 Velodyne 1200's
                        Tuner-Revox B760 McIntosh MR74 Sony XDR F1HD
                        JVC Projector,Draper electric 92" screen
                        Room dedicated 27'x16'x10', Bass traps
                        VPI 17 record cleaning machine

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I bought the Degritter during their Kickstarter campagne and have been very happy with it. It uses a 120kHz ultrasound, which produces much finer bubbles with lower energy than the common 40kHz US used in Kirmuss and KL Audio. It reaches further into the grooves and is less likely to cause damage. It is significantly more expensive than the Kirmuss though. It also uses much less water. The water is recirculated and filtered, and I think one tank is less than 1 litre. If you bought second hand LPs, a vacuum machine might still be necessary for the initial wash, but I clean every record before playing now with ultrasound.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            What are other Degritter users using in their water? Degritter solution? Home brew? Inquiring minds want to know?
                            Speakers: Horning Eufrodite Ellipse III on Stillpoints Ultra 5S feet
                            Speakers: REL Acoustics G1 Mark II Subs (pair)
                            Tube Amplifier: New Audio Frontiers Ultimate 211 Special Edition Monoblocks
                            SS Amplifier: Plinius SA-Reference
                            Preamp: TW Acustic RPA-100 Line Stage
                            Phono Stage: TW Acustic RPS-100
                            Turntable - TW Acustic Raven AC w/ Black Knight Anniversary Upgrades
                            Tonearm: Kuzma 4-Point 14" with Air Tight Opus-1 Cartridge (w/ EM/IA 1:20 Silver Wire SUT)
                            Tonearm: TW 10.5" with Miyajima Zero Mono
                            Vinyl Care: Furutech DF-2 LP Flattener - Degritter Ultrasonic & VPI Cyclone RCM
                            Tape: Tascam 42B-NB (Refurb by Soren Wittrup)
                            Tape Stage: Doshi V.3 Tape Stage
                            CD/SACD: Playback Designs MP-5
                            Streamer/Server: Aurender N20 to Bricasti M1 DAC, EtherREGEN, Farad Super3 PS w/ Level 2 DC Cable, Sablon Audio Ethernet Cable
                            Power Conditioner: (2) Silver Circle Audio TCHAIK 6
                            Wire: Custom Furutech PC's + Audience Front Row IC's & Speaker Cables
                            Tweaks: Stillpoints Aperture II Panels & Stillpoints Ultra 5S's & SS's sprinkled about - DS Audio ION-001 Vinyl Ionizer - SRA Scuttle III Rack, SRA Ohio Class and Symposium Super Plus Platforms

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