VPI Titan, Vanquish, Avenger

[JCOConnell]

How do these new models relate to each other and what do each of them cost w arm?

[MylesBAstor]

See thread:

https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/title-to-be-added/audio-shows/15807-hi-fi-sales-in-cherry-hill-nj-special-event-featuring-vpi-and-audioquest

Titan is $48K.

[JCOConnell]

I don't see the "Vanquish" model. What is it, is there a photo of it. And where does it fit into the lineup?

[MylesBAstor]

See post #2

[Dre_J]

JC I think Vanquish is the new name for the VPI Avenger Direct drive turntable .

[fcrowder]

Thanks for the commentary on what appears to have been a very informative listening session. At various times in the past, I have been bedeviled by hum that I could often reduce to very low levels, but not completely eliminate. Fortunately, my last cable switch on the turntable from Odin to Odin 2 eliminated the last traces. Several observations in the article struck me. One with respect to the superiority of an analog vs. digital power supply. The early Rockport power supplies used a digital circuit to generate the 60 Hz. sine wave. Unfortunately, they also spewed a significant amount of noise into the line. A later change to the design by Demian Martin which substituted an analog sine wave generator eliminated the problem. Likewise, the comments on differences introduced by the tonearm cables mirror my experience. It does make you wonder about where the best place to spend money may be. Finally, thanks for the comparison of the Ortofon A95 vs. the Lyra Atlas. I have been vacillating over selection of a new cartridge for my system and this turned out to be the final nudge that I needed.

I plug in my TT 's power supply outside my system's dedicated circuit.

[garylkoh]

One of my objectives for visiting Harry and Mat Weisfeld was that I was considering using a VPI turntable for CES. That turned into one of the most intense listening sessions I've had. As the system was unfamiliar I had to hear the differences and figure out if the source was something that I wanted to front the system for my most important show of the year.

It took nearly 8 solid hours with numerous switches of cartridges (thank God for the VPI's removable tone arm with easily removable wand!) and cables. But we all - Harry, Wuti and I came to the same conclusion. We preferred the Vanquish to the Titan.

This will only be the third turntable I've brought to CES in 15 years - the last table I brought was the Air Force One.... that tells you how good I think Harry's VPI Vanquish is.

[Socrates]

Yes Gary fine US made TT's to keep the US flag flying

Soc

[MylesBAstor]

The Vanquish looks puny next to the Titan. I love the removable arm wand! Looks like Harry and Mat are playing with a couple of different record weights there! I see four.

Now what would a dd Titan sound like? There's something very special about the dd and the new motor controller for the dd table is a nice improvement too over the original for the Classic direct.

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks for the commentary on what appears to have been a very informative listening session. At various times in the past, I have been bedeviled by hum that I could often reduce to very low levels, but not completely eliminate. Fortunately, my last cable switch on the turntable from Odin to Odin 2 eliminated the last traces. Several observations in the article struck me. One with respect to the superiority of an analog vs. digital power supply. The early Rockport power supplies used a digital circuit to generate the 60 Hz. sine wave. Unfortunately, they also spewed a significant amount of noise into the line. A later change to the design by Demian Martin which substituted an analog sine wave generator eliminated the problem. Likewise, the comments on differences introduced by the tonearm cables mirror my experience. It does make you wonder about where the best place to spend money may be. Finally, thanks for the comparison of the Ortofon A95 vs. the Lyra Atlas. I have been vacillating over selection of a new cartridge for my system and this turned out to be the final nudge that I needed.

Agreed, I always put the VPI SDS on another circuit and kept it isolated from any other piece of gear. Also, the power cord definitely improved the sound of the SDS back then. Haven't played around that much with the power cord choice with the Vanquish dd motor.

[fcrowder]

If you think about it, the motor controller is basically a sine wave generator connected to an amplifier capable of generating a clean 60 Hz. sine wave (I understand that this is somewhat simplistic). Given that amplifiers are almost always sensitive to power cords, you would predict that motor controllers might be also and that has been my experience.

[garylkoh]

Agreed, I always put the VPI SDS on another circuit and kept it isolated from any other piece of gear. Also, the power cord definitely improved the sound of the SDS back then. Haven't played around that much with the power cord choice with the Vanquish dd motor.

Myles, you have my power cords - try taking it out of one of the other components and putting it on your Vanquish. It made the biggest difference there. Harry ended up kidnapping every single power cord I brought.

[garylkoh]

If you think about it, the motor controller is basically a sine wave generator connected to an amplifier capable of generating a clean 60 Hz. sine wave (I understand that this is somewhat simplistic). Given that amplifiers are almost always sensitive to power cords, you would predict that motor controllers might be also and that has been my experience.

Correct! The motor controller is basically a power amp, converting the power from the wall to DC, and then re-generating a clean sine wave the frequency of depends on the speed desired.

[ashandger]

Myles, just wondering when you might be able to share some initial thoughts on the Vanquish and how it compares with Classic DD?

[ashandger]

One of my objectives for visiting Harry and Mat Weisfeld was that I was considering using a VPI turntable for CES. That turned into one of the most intense listening sessions I've had. As the system was unfamiliar I had to hear the differences and figure out if the source was something that I wanted to front the system for my most important show of the year.

It took nearly 8 solid hours with numerous switches of cartridges (thank God for the VPI's removable tone arm with easily removable wand!) and cables. But we all - Harry, Wuti and I came to the same conclusion. We preferred the Vanquish to the Titan.

This will only be the third turntable I've brought to CES in 15 years - the last table I brought was the Air Force One.... that tells you how good I think Harry's VPI Vanquish is.

Gary, are you planning to use VPI arm or the Vertere Reference which I think you used on the AF One? Vanquish + Vertere Ref could be an amazing combo I suspect.

[garylkoh]

For CES, I'll be using the VPI arm. No time to get the Vertere Reference working on the table. VPI also much prefers that you use their arm on their tables.

[ashandger]

Many thanks for the feedback

[Guest]

Gary - what are the platforms under the tables in the photo?

[MylesBAstor]

Myles, just wondering when you might be able to share some initial thoughts on the Vanquish and how it compares with Classic DD?

Good question. Not totally straight forward because along the way, VPI also changed the table's power supply and that made a sizeable improvement. And I received the newest 3D arm short of the dual pivot (that should be arriving shortly.) Particularly in the low end and noise floor. The old SDS always polluted the sound.

But I did have some time with the Vanquish before the new 3D arm and power supply. I think much of the difference between the two tables comes down to isolation eg. the new feet on the table really help isolate the table against floor borne vibrations while the smaller plinth reduces air borne contributions. So I think the table is even more solid sounding, throws a slightly larger soundstage (make that massive sounding) and the smallest change in SRA is immediately apparent. Take something like the Dean Martin 45 rpm where you can literally tune the SRA in by listening for the point where the slight touch of reverb is added in. If you are off, the reverb is largely missing.

More thoughts to come.

[ashandger]

Many thanks for the feedback. Look forward to further updates.