High mass vs lightweight rack

[nc42acc]

In the next few weeks I am setting up a table to support two tables side by side. My design will be high mass, what are your thoughts on lightweight vs high mass table racks?

[MylesBAstor]

In the next few weeks I am setting up a table to support two tables side by side. My design will be high mass, what are your thoughts on lightweight vs high mass table racks?

Rigidity would be my number one concern.

If you look at what I consider the better stands, most are far from lightweight (Critical Mass, SRA, HRS). The lightest of the quartet might be Symposium. But FWIW, it seems that most stands work their best with some sort of platform under the equipment or turntable.

[JackD201]

Lemme see. I live in the Pacific Rim of Fire and have a turntable the platter of which is as heavy as an amplifier. High mass please!

[Guest]

In the next few weeks I am setting up a table to support two tables side by side. My design will be high mass, what are your thoughts on lightweight vs high mass table racks?

Caution: this may be a crazy response to your straightforward question.

Presumably you have something in mind asking about high mass vs lightweight. Aside from support, what's your goal for your table?

From my angle, there seems to be two broad classes of audio rack/stand/support: those that are largely furniture pieces with some passing nod to isolation/vibration management, and those constructed with isolation/vibration management as a primary or key design goal. The latter tend to be more expensive with the greater design effort toward vibration management usually meaning more elaborate construction and fancier materials. Both aim to deliver requisite horizontal space with sufficient stability to cause faith in their ability to hold equipment.

Was it Ivor T who at one time advocated for thin-legged lightweight tea tables for his Linn LP12 turntables? The open design Stillpoints racks that use suspension cables might be called light weight. (Or at least not oriented toward a massy solution.) The heavier weighted stands (all good ones mentioned by Myles) tend to include stuff like viscoelastic glues, layers of materials with different resonance characteristics, exotic foams, etc., such that their ability to re-direct or absorb vibration is more a function of such than their sheer bulk. I suspect materials used are as or more important than mass.

If you're looking more at a table as a piece of furniture, I'll conjecture that one of the first rules of design and materials is not to let the rack itself act like a tuning fork. In a basic wood table design, the use of different woods with different resonance frequencies, say for legs and shelves, might help. If glue is involved, consider viscoelastic glue. Perhaps threaded inserts into the legs to accommodate spikes.

Once arrived at the end point, it would be great if you could post a picture!

[nc42acc]

This leg support system design to hold 5000lbs. Lead shot filled legs.


2 each 60" x 30" maple butcher block tops 2 1/4" thick separated by a sheet of 3/4" 13 ply birch plywood. All layers isolated from each with a sheet of bituthene. Individual granite platforms for each table.

Am I crazy?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Yes! :P (just kidding)

[nc42acc]

Thanks for the vote of confidence John. Now did I take my meds this morning?

[mep]

One thing for sure Marty, it will be a massive stand.

[nc42acc]

This was my alternative choice.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I like the first one you posted better.

[Bill Hart]

Marty- what kind of floor will this sit on? I had a devil of a time with a springy wooden floor using high mass, though I got it solved. I love the idea of industrial stuff that doesn't necessarily involve "audiophile" branded products, though I've found it necessary to 'accessorize' using those self-same audiophile branded products. Leveling the support frame is also separate from leveling the individual platforms on which particular components rest- in my case, with the air bearing arm, the table has to be perfectly level, and then slightly higher on the right front corner so the arm naturally tends to glide from outer rim to label center. And it's just a hair off perfectly level. The other thing was that I found isolation worked better- at least on my springy wooden floor, at the table leg bottoms, using a very massive old wooden prayer table- made of mahogany, I think (but not sure).
I would love to get away from any floor stand for turntable altogether, but given weight, I think I'd need welded steel verticals and horizontals- I'm not going there yet---but if and when I construct a new room, I'm keeping this in mind as an alternative to worrying about a floor stand.

[nc42acc]

The table will be placed on a perimeter wall of my house that the exterior wall is block and brick. Also a very overbuilt floor joist system in this room so I have a solid foundation. I forgot to mention the leg support system has heavy duty threaded levelers on each leg. Sometimes you just gotta be different.

[microstrip]

Can we know what are the turntables? Let us hope that they do not need different types of racks!

The worst sounding rack I have ever listened to was built with exclusively with 3" thick stone plates, used as vertical legs and a large platform in a double H structure - any system the owner would put on it would sound lifeless and boring. The speakers the were the Sonus Faber Extrema, a fantastic but biplolar speaker - it would move from great to miserable sounding very easily.

[nc42acc]

I have found all stone racks, platforms, etc do not make for good audio. This is why I am using a combination of materials.

[nc42acc]

Good question.

VPI Prime
Pioneer PLX-1000

[MylesBAstor]

Caution: this may be a crazy response to your straightforward question.

Presumably you have something in mind asking about high mass vs lightweight. Aside from support, what's your goal for your table?

From my angle, there seems to be two broad classes of audio rack/stand/support: those that are largely furniture pieces with some passing nod to isolation/vibration management, and those constructed with isolation/vibration management as a primary or key design goal. The latter tend to be more expensive with the greater design effort toward vibration management usually meaning more elaborate construction and fancier materials. Both aim to deliver requisite horizontal space with sufficient stability to cause faith in their ability to hold equipment.

Was it Ivor T who at one time advocated for thin-legged lightweight tea tables for his Linn LP12 turntables? The open design Stillpoints racks that use suspension cables might be called light weight. (Or at least not oriented toward a massy solution.) The heavier weighted stands (all good ones mentioned by Myles) tend to include stuff like viscoelastic glues, layers of materials with different resonance characteristics, exotic foams, etc., such that their ability to re-direct or absorb vibration is more a function of such than their sheer bulk. I suspect materials used are as or more important than mass.

If you're looking more at a table as a piece of furniture, I'll conjecture that one of the first rules of design and materials is not to let the rack itself act like a tuning fork. In a basic wood table design, the use of different woods with different resonance frequencies, say for legs and shelves, might help. If glue is involved, consider viscoelastic glue. Perhaps threaded inserts into the legs to accommodate spikes.

Once arrived at the end point, it would be great if you could post a picture!

Ray Shab's Arcici stands also used a suspension system like the Stillpoints. My friend got the Stillpoints and loves their stands.

[nc42acc]

Myles I despise the look of the Stillpoints stands. I do have a set of Ultra SS coming for my VR5 though.

Ray Shab's Arcici stands also used a suspension system like the Stillpoints. My friend got the Stillpoints and loves their stands.

[Guest]

Marty - What does the bituthene do? Isn't that for waterproofing; does it have another function?

[nc42acc]

Yes it is a waterproofing membrane as its manufactured purpose but I found out how good it is at vibration dampening building speakers in the 80s. Not spongy and lossy like sorbothane.

[Rob]

Can we know what are the turntables? Let us hope that they do not need different types of racks!

The worst sounding rack I have ever listened to was built with exclusively with 3" thick stone plates, used as vertical legs and a large platform in a double H structure - any system the owner would put on it would sound lifeless and boring. The speakers the were the Sonus Faber Extrema, a fantastic but biplolar speaker - it would move from great to miserable sounding very easily.

so you make a stand as inert and 'massy' as possible and the result is that imparts "lifeless" quality. I guess I'm not getting it, what is the formula for a good sounding stand?

I