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  • This high-end dealer doesn’t recommend expensive cables!

    Sour grapes? I dont think so and many will agree with Andy:

    Linn Kilmax LP12 | Audio Research Ref Phono 2 SE | innous ZENMini | Kii Three

  • #2
    I stopped selling audiophile cables & cords since early 2000, not only because of ridiculous cost of some but also so many are very colored and actually have a disastrous effect on a system.

    david
    Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
    Distribution: NEODIO

    Special Sales: van den Hul
    Industry Representation: Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformer, Venta Airwasher

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    http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...stening-room-1
    http://www.audionirvana.org/forum/ti...earfield-setup

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  • #3
    No sour grapes here! Absolutely agree YES. New respect for Andy
    Primary 2 channel stuff: Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass Labs X600.5 amps, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, Dunlavy SC4s, VPI HRX Reference w Avenger mag drive and Reference footers, Gimbal Fatboy, Yamaha GT2000 for Mono, Miyajima Kansui, Miyajima ZERO, Fidelity Research MC-201 & 202, VPI ADS, Vendetta Research SCP-1, Audio Note UK- 3.1X II balanced DAC, Meridian Sooloos, Western Electric Speaker wire, mostly diy balanced interconnects, Furutech Power Cords

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    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      ...

  • #4
    I disagree with the assessment "This high-end dealer doesn't recommend expensive cables". He simply said that more money should be invested in putting together the "bones" of the system before spending a lot of money on cables. I also heard that cables are very system dependent. It all sounded like wise advice to me. Coincidently I've recently taken out my Audience cables and swapped in some inexpensive high frequency Belden cables that a friend discovered.

    Comment


    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      point taken. i quoted Steve's headline verbatim from his youtube vlog, it's monetized so click bait is the name of the game if you want to drive viewers to your content. I like his channel and if it steers people to AN as well as Gutenberg's vlog then more the merrier. Yes, if you did bother to watch the entire vlog--bassrome notwithstanding--the later half talks about the importance of cables. Im waiting for Myles' channel. I for one think he speaks with great authority and miss his video contributions on AV Showcase which was a big reason to tune in.

    • Letsmakeadeal
      Letsmakeadeal commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes - all true - that said, there are some fantastic sounding relatively inexpensive cables out there. Even some top tier challenging DIY. Don't get me wrong, I've had mega Dollar Transparent Reference (MM technology) cables throughout when I was still drinking the Coolaid. At that time I had access to accommodation pricing which was still absolutely INSANE IMHO. My system is no slouch and I now use a mix of DIY and low to moderately priced offerings. Not missing anything. So with cabling, BUYERs BEWARE! BE open minded and trial test as much as you can. $$$$$ don't necessarily equal Great or better sound than other $$ or $$$ offerings. Opinions here based on lots of personal experience and flushed cash.

    • MylesBAstor
      MylesBAstor commented
      Editing a comment
      That's why something like the try before you buy approach taken by the Cable Company (and I assume some dealers) makes sense.

      I've played with inexpensive cables with varying results. One thing. I find great variability; I assume the cables come from different sources and/or whatever materials are availability.

      Personally, I find inexpensive ICs and speaker cables lack when compared to the better cables the last vestiges of transparency, smoothness and resolution. (perhaps the best inexpensive cables made by Radio Shack some 15 years ago.)

      Power cords are highly individualized especially when talking about big power amplifiers. Sure there are always some tradeoffs but on balance the better cables still win out.

      Lastly, I've said before- that-and still stand by--phono cables can make or break a system.

  • #5
    Andy Singer also is saying that with the extra margin in cables, if a customer is bargaining for the lowest price, the dealer can often make it up by selling higher priced cables than the customer really needs to make up for the lost profit on the rest of the system. He also is saying that if a customer and dealer develop a trust relationship then the dealer can provide advice on the best synergy of cable to system to give the best sounding system to the customer for the price. That doesn't mean spending hours with a dealer, listening to systems and getting advice and then going on line to find the lowest price.

    Larry
    Analog- VPIClassic3-3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeroMono, 2xAmpex ATR-102,Doshi3.0 BottleheadPhonoPre,Herron VTPH-2A
    Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,Mykerinos,PacMicroModel2
    Dig Play-mchNADAC, LampiPac, Roon, HQP, Oppo105
    Electronics-Herron 360Pre,CJ MET1mchPre, Cary2A3monoamps
    Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
    Other-512Engineer/Marutani Symmetrical Power, ArtKelmGround1, AudioDiskVinylCleaner,AirTightRecordFlat, Scott Rust Interconnects,
    Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1KR2Rtapes,50TBrips

    Comment


    • Rob
      Rob commented
      Editing a comment
      Larry you're an old sage at this game as many (most) posters on AN. What Andy's comments does is serve the newer breed of up and coming audiophiles that are still getting their 'sea legs' as it were.

  • #6
    Originally posted by david k View Post
    I stopped selling audiophile cables & cords since early 2000, not only because of ridiculous cost of some but also so many are very colored and actually have a disastrous effect on a system.

    david
    That may or may not be true but that isn't the point of the video as I see it. The question is what pct out of the total cost of a system should be allocated to cables?

    So Andy gives an example where half of the cost of a 20K system was cables. Really? 10K of cables. Sure sounds made up to me. Just like another stereotype that all audiophiles own 50 LPs.

    Seemed more like an advertorial to me.

    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
    -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
    -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

    Comment


    • #7
      Originally posted by bassrome View Post
      I disagree with the assessment "This high-end dealer doesn't recommend expensive cables". He simply said that more money should be invested in putting together the "bones" of the system before spending a lot of money on cables. I also heard that cables are very system dependent. It all sounded like wise advice to me. Coincidently I've recently taken out my Audience cables and swapped in some inexpensive high frequency Belden cables that a friend discovered.
      +1.

      I also agree that cables/accessories are system dependent. In fact, relying too much on cables/accessories to "tune" a system often leads to bad results when switching equipment. That is unless you go back to square one with each component and pull all the chachkis out.
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
      -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
      -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #8
        Ah, Cables. The never end debate and a dead end road. I have mixed feelings about it. Come'on man, a $800.00 1 meter interconnects because it makes miracles? BS. I rather buy better speakers or ancillary equipment with good and honest wires, instead of the Black Magic BS cables that I usually see around. I could never justify a $1,000 AC cord when my all electrical system remains the same from the Electrical company all the way to my house. Anyway, all this kind of conversations do is start a heat debate and never solve shit! Regards!
        Sketsoteric Audio: "Analog Sound, Digital Flexibility"
        http://mortechpr.wixsite.com/cassetteadventures
        http://mortechpr.wixsite.com/cgmasteringservices

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        • #9
          Whatever the purchases in my life, I never buy the cheapest or most expensive and from the various cables I've had in my systems I'm very pleased with the offerenings from Morrow Audio. While I truly enjoy my system it is far from being able to reproduce those last vestiges of transparency, smoothness and resolution, as Myles would say. An embarrassingly expensive cable isn't going to magically open up that world for me either. It might maximize what my components are able to do, but then it might not.
          Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

          Comment


          • MylesBAstor
            MylesBAstor commented
            Editing a comment
            It might maximize what my components are able to do..."
            Spot on.

        • #10
          Originally posted by El Magnifico View Post
          Ah, Cables. The never end debate and a dead end road. I have mixed feelings about it. Come'on man, a $800.00 1 meter interconnects because it makes miracles? BS. I rather buy better speakers or ancillary equipment with good and honest wires, instead of the Black Magic BS cables that I usually see around. I could never justify a $1,000 AC cord when my all electrical system remains the same from the Electrical company all the way to my house. Anyway, all this kind of conversations do is start a heat debate and never solve shit! Regards!
          The issue is using the cable appropriate to the system.

          In my experience, once you get to a certain level, cables can make a break a system. The biggest improvement at this level is transparency and dropping that noise floor of the system. As we say: Everything counts. And one component with a high noise floor will kill transparency.

          With regards to the AC line. Very few would argue with its importance; 25% (maybe less?) of audiophiles are able to address those issues, however, due to living conditions. Not everyone lives in a house and is free to do electrical work. So there is nothing wrong with experimenting with what is reasonable: AC outlets, AC cords, PLCs, etc. Contacts are everything. Probably the most important contact to keep clean--and gives the biggest bang for the buck--are the AC plugs.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
          -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
          -Merrill Audio Elemente 116 monoblock amplifiers
          -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
          -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • El Magnifico
            El Magnifico commented
            Editing a comment
            Agree Myles, but that doesn't means to mortgage your leg buying miracle wires. All my decks has a nice LAT AC cords, with hospital grade plugs. Does it makes a difference? Who knows, but it certainly does no harm...and the cord looks beautiful compared to the black stock one! Ha!

        • #11
          Headline was kind of a "bait and switch"...which I fell for although I do agree with the premise, higher price doesn't necessarily mean better. In my system I've heard more expensive cables not sound nearly as good as other less expensive. However, as we all know on this forum, in a high end(relative term) system cables/interconnects can be as important to the sound as any other component. Obviously, what it comes down to is how your system sounds to you and weighing the cost/benefit of adding that more expensive component.

          Comment


          • #12
            I have spent approximately 3% (relative to the cost of my equipment)on cables, while I still plan on upgrading power chords in the near future.While this may not seem like very much to some, it is a small fortune to some of us, I have already had the power company upgrade the power transformer that feeds my country home for more stable voltage without too much difficulty. The next step is to enlarge my fuse panel so I can run dedicated lines for my music room. I just need to know that I am getting the best possible sound out of my meager system that I possibly can within an acceptable financial investment in my system and sanity lol. If I had deeper pockets I may have went a different route.
            Manley neo classic 250 mono blocks.
            Monitor audio PL 300,
            Audio research LS 27,
            Zesto audio PS 1.2
            Vpi prime signature
            Lyra delos,
            Clearaudio sloution,
            A/S. statement single ended speaker cables occ,
            A/S statement SE line stage cables occ,
            A/S statement SE analog cable occ,
            A/S statement silver phono cable occ,
            Brazilian ironwood cable isolators,
            Custom built acrylic TT covers.

            Comment


            • #13
              While while I do agree that a budget is the determining factor in a purchase of a system cables, PC and the room itself are also extremely relevant COMPONENTS to the overall performance of the music
              That said Audioquest new line of PC ,interconnects new bias pack and the zero and bass speaker cables are a revelation in this arena to making a huge difference in a systems overall performance. Garth Powell has created a real difference maker IMO with his engineering talent. This attached video should speak volumes to what a real difference this can make in one’s system. HEARING IS BELIEVING which is so apparent in this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zW3Q7RXgVg

              Comment


              • #14
                Originally posted by david k View Post
                I stopped selling audiophile cables & cords since early 2000, not only because of ridiculous cost of some but also so many are very colored and actually have a disastrous effect on a system.

                david
                Wow David we agree on something . But not really all Cables most likely color one or the other.
                For I try to buy what I can afford that moves me in the direction I think I need. The bigger issue is hoping it's correct.
                speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                Dacs lampi various

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