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The squeaking chair of the Basset Horn player

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  • The squeaking chair of the Basset Horn player

    Do you want to hear more detail from your stereo than you'd hear at a live event?

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  • #2
    Tim, did you have a recording where you can hear a squeaky chair? I have many recordings where you can hear all sorts of extraneous sounds, like music dropping of a stand, or the infamous London underground line that ran underneath Kingsway Hall.

    Thanks, Larry
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    • tima
      tima commented
      Editing a comment
      Oh yeah - sometimes I'm almost dissapointed if I don't hear the Kingsway hall subway. I've never been there - I'm told now its a hotel - but I'm sure you could hear it at a live event.

  • #3
    Things like these I usually hear in between songs on D2D recordings. I don't find the songs themselves unnaturally detailed.

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    • astrotoy
      astrotoy commented
      Editing a comment
      In D2D the mikes don't get turned down and the cutting head keeps going! There are also lots of extra sounds in live recordings.

  • #4
    I personally do. Live venues in my experience are dependent on seating location. I probably wouldn't have heard the foot stomp H.P. alluded to in The Weaver's Reunion at Carnegie Hall had I been in the audience, or the drum stick drop while Bill Evans was playing at Shelly's Manne-Hole. We invest a lot of money in our systems so we can have " the best seat in the house ", so the retrieval of detail is important to me.
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    • #5
      I occasionally hear foot taps keeping time, piano peddles being released, a piano bench squeak, and other extraneous sounds that I am sure were not intended to be part of the recording. These sounds are rarely objectionable to me as they add a sense of ambiance of the performance. I am pleased that my sound systems are capable of reproducing such micro details from an inky black background.

      What does irritate me are live recordings where the audience feels obliged to begin clapping to the beat of a performance, like they think this somehow enhances the performance. This drives me nuts. I tend to avoid playing any recording where this activity takes place.
      Dan

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      • 1morerecord2clean
        1morerecord2clean commented
        Editing a comment
        I hate the same clapping routine at the live event as well. Dancing in the aisles and standing and waving arms around are infuriating playground antics I can’t tolerated when I have spent big money for a seat st s concert. Probably why I avoid pop concerts. Sorry. I know I’m an old fart.

      • seamonster
        seamonster commented
        Editing a comment
        And it's weird how it seems most folks couldn't keep time to save their lives.

    • #6
      I have many recordings with all kinds of sounds picked up by the microphones. I can’t recall which one, but I have a studio recording made by the NY Phil in which you can hear the subway rumble thru. In general, the NY Phil recordings from the 50s 60s run rampant with chair movement, wind players inhaling, etc. even an occasional broken string can be heard. One of the loudest is on the Kondrashin - Tchaikovsky Capriccio Italian recording which has a very bad page turn made by a player about 3/4 thru the recording. It might not sound like a page turn to the uniniated but it is the sound of the bottom of the page dragging over the music stand on which it sits. It’s so loud it’s amazing that RCA produced it without a retake. I have Handel’s Organ Concerti with Jaap Schroeder played on a 250 yr old organ that sounds like a creaky old machine. I like this stuff. Makes me aware that real live people made these recordings.
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      • #7
        Okay - let's not use extraneous sounds - my bad with that title.

        Whether from excess multi-micing or hyper-resolution componentry, let's say you hear small details that you may not hear in the concert hall but are picked up on the recording. A particular instrument enters their part a 32nd of a beat too late. The small squeak of a broken reed in the oboe section when the orchestra is at full tilt. Things that someone in the loge or even the front rows may not hear. Or as Jmwick suggests, things that a less than best seat might not hear. Then there is added or edited stuff that was not of the live event. Some listeners and reviewers gauge components or systems (or buy them) on whether they hear certain 'sonic events' not heard on other systems or live.

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        • #8
          I suppose it can be used as some sort of indicator. I also doubt that even for the most fanatical detail guy that it is the end all and be all and that overall balance still trumps detail ultimately. LOL Well come to think of it I think we've all come across the guy that sits hunched forward at the edge of the seat with his face scrunched up all the time LOL

          Personally I'm a tone first guy BUT I am also an information guy. I mean, I do want to hear it all BUT each event must be placed in its proper context. I think that you can't highlight subtleties without exaggerating the less subtle as a natural consequence. So it is my belief that if you want to achieve this, the path is to go down rather than up. Start with good resolution and IMD capability and work towards removing masking noise rather than boosting certain ranges. Gotta say though, this must be the most difficult part of this hobby to accomplish.

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          • tima
            tima commented
            Editing a comment
            Excellent comments, Jack.

        • #9
          I find the close mic'ing of double bass and piano to be unnatural sounding- that proctologist's view of the string bass creaking is not something I hear in a club where I'm a few yards from the bass player-- I know this is a characteristic of some recordings- to me it is hyper close to the point where the perspective is lost. Same on piano. Really difficult to mic naturally-- scale of instrument is often lost if it is a large orchestra. But, though the piano is a large instrument, it is too close sounding in many cases (unless your listening position is right under the lid above the soundboard). To me, this may sound impressive, but isn't real. At least how I hear the instrument in a live setting.

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          • #10
            Originally posted by Bill Hart View Post
            I find the close mic'ing of double bass and piano to be unnatural sounding- that proctologist's view of the string bass creaking is not something I hear in a club where I'm a few yards from the bass player-- I know this is a characteristic of some recordings- to me it is hyper close to the point where the perspective is lost. Same on piano. Really difficult to mic naturally-- scale of instrument is often lost if it is a large orchestra. But, though the piano is a large instrument, it is too close sounding in many cases (unless your listening position is right under the lid above the soundboard). To me, this may sound impressive, but isn't real. At least how I hear the instrument in a live setting.
            you must be talking about the Japanese TBM catalog. Ultra close mic'd, exciting to listen to but unless you're onstage with the performers the presentation is unnatural. The playing is a different story, but they do have 'enthusiasm'--part of the whole pre and post-war obsession with American music, esp Jazz.
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            • #11
              How about the chair squeak (in the right channel) at the tail end of Sgt. Pepper's "A Day In the Life"(!)😆

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