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Is Digital Becoming The Land of Technogeeks?

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  • Is Digital Becoming The Land of Technogeeks?

    AKA are high Rez digital files both a boon and bust?

    Truth be told, digital audio's rapid adoption had little to do with sound.

    People could slam a disc in a drawer and hit play
    60 minutes of uninterrupted music
    The industry could mass produce music and make greater profits
    A chimpanzee could edit tapes
    Engineers could make easy corrections in the digital domain (de-essing for instance)

    Jump ahead 35 years and we noware living in a brave new world of computer audio/music servers and high Rez PCM and DSD. While there's no question all things being equal that either format does in general offer better sound than red book CD (and MikeL is now re-experiencing RBCD in a different way than ever imagined and there may yet be life in those silver discs), is that enough to offset the lack of user friendliness? Do I have the right software? Do I have the right or latest version? Is this function turned on? Is that function turned off? Are these functions incompatible? Why did my connection die? I think you are getting the general drift. At a recent audio show, Mark and I estimated half the rooms we visited were experiencing issues with their digital playback at one time or another during the course of the show.

    So since convenience, not sound, was the primary driving force behind the adoption of digital audio, is there any reason to believe that high Rez digital files will ever be more than a niche product in audio? After all, Joe Q. Pubic won't stand for not being able to play their music when they want and it's only a matter of time before all those angry customer calls wears dealers down.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

  • #2
    Looked at a thread from the other forum on building a poor man's digital file streamer. Although I haven't used my degree in CS in many years, I am not foreign to the field. And yet, it was challenging to keep up with the lingo. Yes, current digital land is for the young men or young techno geeks.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know Mark was pulling his hair out this weekend.

      I'm far from computer illiterate or known to run away from a challenge setting these things up puts me off.
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #4
        What better system could you have than the actual computers that created the original digital files in the first place?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bruce B View Post
          What better system could you have than the actual computers that created the original digital files in the first place?

          I for one... too lazy to use the computer and having to scroll and click the mouse. I did try the Aurender last year, and it was simple especially the UI on iPad.

          Comment


          • #6
            Let's not kid ourselves here people-setting up a server/software/DAC/remote is no walk in the park. You have to download drivers for your DAC onto your server. You have to download your GUI software onto your server (pick your poison) and then get the software to recognize your DAC and then setup the software so it is optimized for your DAC. If you are going to play DSD files, that opens a whole new can of digital whoop-ass in order to get all of the software settings correct otherwise you have no sound. I downloaded ROON software two weeks ago after reading some glowing reports about only to find it doesn't support dff files which is what most of my DSD files are.

            ​Now I have been running JRiver on my server for years now and I have the JRiver remote app on my iPad. All of this is running on my Wi-Fi network. Now it's normal that they both lose their handshake and I have to reset one or the other sometimes in order for my remote app to resynch with the server so I can control the music from my iPad while doing my best impression of a digital couch potato. Sometimes one or both will lose the connection to the Wi-Fi network. The most common answer to all digital problems is to reboot. Last weekend I lost the connection between my remote app and the server. All of my usual tricks failed to make the remote app work again. All of the King's horses and all of the King's men couldn't make my remote app synch up again. Andre Jennings finally told me to use Gizmo which is a web-based app and I was able to regain control of my server remotely, though it damn sure isn't as nice as the JRiver remote app. I still have no idea what is wrong.

            Bottom line is that once we got away from one box digital solutions, digital was no longer the "Look ma-no hands" that it used to be. Digital is now 1000x time more of a pain in the ass than analog ever was and it still doesn't sound as good as analog regardless of what people tell you who haven't owned analog gear in 50 years or they have never owned analog gear in their lives. I would be willing to bet that I could build a computer from scratch and have it up and running faster than someone who is not a Computer Engineer can set up a wireless network, server, install the GUI software interface, download all of the drivers, and have the server playing back DSD files that is being controlled by a remote app they installed as well.
            Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mep View Post

              Bottom line is that once we got away from one box digital solutions, digital was no longer the "Look ma-no hands" that it used to be. Digital is now 1000x time more of a pain in the ass than analog ever was and it still doesn't sound as good as analog regardless of what people tell you who haven't owned analog gear in 50 years or they have never owned analog gear in their lives. I would be willing to bet that I could build a computer from scratch and have it up and running faster than someone who is not a Computer Engineer can set up a wireless network, server, install the GUI software interface, download all of the drivers, and have the server playing back DSD files that is being controlled by a remote app they installed as well.
              And that's one of the primary reasons I don't use digital as an alternate music format in my system. It's too much of a pain in the arse.

              I didn't BOLD the continuation of your sentence as I don't want to get into that debate.
              Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

              Comment


              • #8
                You guys haven't tried any of the Aurender products, if it is easy and convenient for me to use it is EASY!
                Marty

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bruce B View Post
                  What better system could you have than the actual computers that created the original digital files in the first place?

                  You're right but that's not the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that for hi-rez digital to be anything more than a high-end curiosity, a niche product, manufacturers have to make it much simpler for non-audiophiles to use.
                  Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                  Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                  ________________________________________

                  -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                  -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                  -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                  -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                  -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                  -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                  -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                  -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                  -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                  -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nc42acc View Post
                    You guys haven't tried any of the Aurender products, if it is easy and convenient for me to use it is EASY!

                    Well that's what I'm looking for! I did hear the Aurender a couple of shows ago, pre-DSD update, and it definitely sounded good on 24/192 files.

                    Maybe what we should add to the OT is what are the easiest and most foolproof servers to use?
                    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                    ________________________________________

                    -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                    -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                    -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There are so many ways to acheive the ends to the means with digital audio these days. Some simple some complicated. I chose the easy path instead of the computer/streamer option. I think someone who is software and setting savvy would have no issues with the likes of Roon, JRiver, HQPlayer and such. I am willing to try anything once if it sounds better so I hope to hear of others experiences with computer/digital audio and servers.
                      Marty

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nc42acc View Post
                        There are so many ways to acheive the ends to the means with digital audio these days. Some simple some complicated. I chose the easy path instead of the computer/streamer option. I think someone who is software and setting savvy would have no issues with the likes of Roon, JRiver, HQPlayer and such. I am willing to try anything once if it sounds better so I hope to hear of others experiences with computer/digital audio and servers.

                        I'm definitely in the easy camp. Eight years ago, I came to a fork in the road. Should I invest money in a reel-to-reel tape machine or high-rez digital gear? At that point, digital was changing so quickly, it didn't seem to make sense to invest money in that medium. Plus I had always had a hankering for a reel-to-reel machine, along came Winston Ma and I'm very happy I made the choice to opt for a tape deck. It has probably cost me about $9000 but it's definitely been worth it; the sound is out of this world.

                        But at this point, maybe not right now, I am thinking about the next step in my system.
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                        -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                        -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Myles I think digital is still changing rapidly or it seems so to me.
                          Marty

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nc42acc View Post
                            Myles I think digital is still changing rapidly or it seems so to me.

                            I thought it was just my head that was spinning.
                            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                            ________________________________________

                            -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                            -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                            -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I was in the record and audio biz in some of analogs darkest days during my college years. Everything Myles said is true. I would add that in the early and mid 70s records were being pressed so poorly that Sam Goody received hundreds of returns or exchanges every week. I mean they were pure crap. On top of that the oil embargoes increased the prices dramatically which didn't make for fans of analog. Everyone was waiting for perfect sound forever. Consumers, the record industry, and the audio industry. No returns, new hardware to sell, and entire catalogs to reissue.
                              TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter matte & weight; Arcam R Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

                              Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

                              VTL 6.5 preamp Series II
                              Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

                              Piega C711 Loudspeakers

                              Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

                              Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator

                              Shunyata Hydra 8; Shunyata AC Cords; Synergistic Research Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cord, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates & Blue Outlets, Furutech NCF Booster Brace, Audio Art Ref balanced ICs, MIT Oracle IC and Magnum Speaker Cables

                              Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD1200s Headphones.

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