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  • Best sounding didgital source

    As I am a digital person for its supposed convience , it's actually anything but. The plus is I have been in it for years and have learned so much about it. Now picking the best choices of where to find the best sounding music is now my new quest . At one time any vinyl rip was horrible and analog at the same time. What this means to me is the music had an analog sole to it relaxed not dynamic where it should not be. But the overall qulality was lacking greatness that analog has. As time went on the best digital I own is from analog tape weather it's dsd or PCM . Funny how PCM gets crucified for,it's digital sound over dsd . The fact is it's the chain not just th format. What I mean is where it comes from and how it's played back. I could name dacs that do one better than the other for me but let's go before them in the chain. Our source begins in the download or rip right. So my question here is where do the best sounding recordings start from. There is plenty of pure dsd and PCM out there for us but how much of is top shelf , stunning examples of how good it can be. Not music we love but purely it's sound quality. I have learned to love so much music that is so outside of my gernerel genre because of it. As good as pure dsd is even dsd 256 , I cannot put my figure on one recording that beats out old analog converted to dsd . Now this is my findings how about yours.? Does anyone accually record on analog tape and convert when mixing to dsd 128 or even 256 ? My guess is almost none do. Now this would easily solve the mixing issue Dsd issue and it could be done in analog and then put to dsd .
    I have about 36 or so vinyl rips from a really top end setup ripped to dsd 128 and many more rips of SACD to dsd 64 . although I love pure dsd the magic is in the analog beginnings for me.
    Just a few songs in this category are
    Elvis stereo 57 tape rip
    Louis Armstrong st Jamie's infirmary vinyl rip.
    Tumbleweed connection tape , love song , come down in time , talking old soldiers .
    What I am looking for is proof of this theory and thoughts of others.
    Al D
    Last edited by Alrainbow; 05-15-2016, 08:38 AM.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    The best sounding didgital source is a dontgital source!
    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
      As I am a digital person for its supposed convience , it's actually anything but.
      Yeah what ever happened to CD players?

      The plus is I have been in it for years and have learned so much about it. Now picking the best choices of where to find the best sounding music is now my new quest . At one time any vinyl rip was horrible and analog at the same time. What this means to me is the music had an analog sole to it relaxed not dynamic where it should not be. But the overall qulality was lacking greatness that analog has. As time went on the best digital I own is from analog tape weather it's dsd or PCM .
      I think a lot of people talked about this from day one. Some companies back in the beginning recorded digitally and then went to tape.

      Funny how PCM gets crucified for,it's digital sound over dsd . The fact is it's the chain not just the format. What I mean is where it comes from and how it's played back. I could name dacs that do one better than the other for me but let's go before them in the chain.
      I find the more one makes generalization, the more trouble we get into. I've heard good examples of RBCD, PCM and DSD. But the real issue seems to be what happens to the recording after it's recorded in DSD. That's why the only really "pure" DSD recordings until now have come from analog tape. Or really unedited recordings.

      Our source begins in the download or rip right. So my question here is where do the best sounding recordings start from. There is plenty of pure dsd and PCM out there for us but how much of is top shelf , stunning examples of how good it can be. Not music we love but purely it's sound quality. I have learned to love so much music that is so outside of my gernerel genre because of it. As good as pure dsd is even dsd 256 , I cannot put my figure on one recording that beats out old analog converted to dsd . Now this is my findings how about yours.? Does anyone accually record on analog tape and convert when mixing to dsd 128 or even 256 ? My guess is almost none do. Now this would easily solve the mixing issue Dsd issue and it could be done in analog and then put to dsd .
      I have about 36 or so vinyl rips from a really top end setup ripped to dsd 128 and many more rips of SACD to dsd 64 . although I love pure dsd the magic is in the analog beginnings for me.
      Just a few songs in this category are
      Elvis stereo 57 tape rip
      Louis Armstrong st Jamie's infirmary vinyl rip.
      Tumbleweed connection tape , love song , come down in time , talking old soldiers .
      What I am looking for is proof of this theory and thoughts of others.
      Al D
      I can only think of one company that records today in parallel: Yarlung. But now yarlung records in DSD and use that for the current high rez files. Bob used his tapes from their earlier efforts to create the quad DSD transfers.Unless there is some European label recording in analog and transferring to DSD?
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
      -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wouldn't todays state of the art digital recording be direct stereo to quad DSD? I know logistically it would be nearly as difficult as a D2D LP, but it would sound pretty good.
        Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
          Wouldn't todays state of the art digital recording be direct stereo to quad DSD? I know logistically it would be nearly as difficult as a D2D LP, but it would sound pretty good.

          The problem is in editing, not recording in DSD though Bruce can speak to that part more. There's one workstation (Sonoma?) that is better than the rest. That's why when you go directly from the analog tape to quad DSD, it's really the only time you are hearing "true" DSD.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
          -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post


            The problem is in editing, not recording in DSD though Bruce can speak to that part more. There's one workstation (Sonoma?) that is better than the rest. That's why when you go directly from the analog tape to quad DSD, it's really the only time you are hearing "true" DSD.
            Why cant you substitute a live feed out of the mixing console for the analog tape? ( like a d2d lp is cut )
            Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

              Why cant you substitute a live feed out of the mixing console for the analog tape? ( like a d2d lp is cut )

              I'm not sure what you mean. Certainly you can do DSD without any editing but anything complex requires one to to other machinations with the recording.
              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
              -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
              -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

              Comment


              • #8
                Think of a 2D2 LP recording. Except, substitute the Quad DSD recorder for the cutting lathe. That would create a state of the art digital recording, no? (assuming a good live feed).
                Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
                  Think of a 2D2 LP recording. Except, substitute the Quad DSD recorder for the cutting lathe. That would create a state of the art digital recording, no? (assuming a good live feed).
                  Yes that might work in a few cases but the majority of recordings done today need some sort of editing especially classical and rock
                  music.
                  Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                  Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                  ________________________________________

                  -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                  -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                  -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                  -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                  -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                  -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                  -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                  -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                  -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                  -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                    Yes that might work in a few cases but the majority of recordings done today need some sort of editing especially classical and rock
                    music.
                    Yes, I understand it would be very limiting and demanding, but that's what it would take, just like the old days of D2D.
                    Last edited by JCOConnell; 05-18-2016, 10:16 AM.
                    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post

                      Yes, I understand it would be very limiting and demanding, but that's what it would take, just like the old days of D2D.

                      That's not how the music industry works anymore anyway. Everything, especially classical, has to be note perfect. They don't even play a whole movement through anymore.
                      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                      ________________________________________

                      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                      -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post


                        That's not how the music industry works anymore anyway. Everything, especially classical, has to be note perfect. They don't even play a whole movement through anymore.
                        Then you get compromised sound, its that simple. I was talking about what it would take to create a state of the art digital recording sound wise.
                        Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                        Comment


                        • MylesBAstor
                          MylesBAstor commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Good topic for another thread.

                      • #13
                        Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post


                        The problem is in editing, not recording in DSD though Bruce can speak to that part more. There's one workstation (Sonoma?) that is better than the rest. That's why when you go directly from the analog tape to quad DSD, it's really the only time you are hearing "true" DSD.
                        So you don't consider recording from an Analog Console to DSD a true DSD recording? That's how Blue Coast and some of the independent labels are recording to DSD - and in some cases to DSD 128 and DSD 256.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by bmoura View Post

                          So you don't consider recording from an Analog Console to DSD a true DSD recording? That's how Blue Coast and some of the independent labels are recording to DSD - and in some cases to DSD 128 and DSD 256.

                          Thanks for pointing that out Brian and raising an interesting question. I was primarily thinking of when DSD has to be converted in different fashions to PCM or "widened" for editing and then converted back. Something that they don't want to talk about but Mark Levinson did years ago.

                          From what I understand, this might be aside from using analog tape, the best way to record in DSD. But aren't you still really limited to balancing, panned and minor adjusting but nothing major like say an orchestral recording might need? This would seem to be better suited to small groups and ensembles.
                          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                          ________________________________________

                          -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                          -Goldmund Telos 280 stereo amp
                          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                          -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            That may be why blue coast sounds so good. . I down loaded the fee native dsd same tracks in three dsd rates . 64 is not as good as 128 .mthere is just more details in ambience as well as shine . Now when I go up,to 256 I could never hear anything with any headphone , amp or headac direct i own. Now on my IRS v with new cross over and now fully balanced cross over I can say there is an improvement . It's small but repeatable . What it is is ambience around the notes. If it was light the notes would glow if this makes sense to anyone. It puts the Music closer in my room . The tracks are simple music . Not sure of it would be more or less pronounced in complex classical . Now what more musical it's still not pure but analog to dsd conversion. Myles played a track from opus 3 no 3 a great track and it's still very good for me. There is another track that's even better on there . Pure or what is supposed to be lure dsd near has this feel of musicality . Now mYles states it's not pure , and maybe is why . Our beloved music Chain of custidy is just crazy and honestly I cannot care as I will never know anyway. For me find great music is my final quest and where it comes from my brain will tell me lol.
                            analog stuff.
                            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                            Dacs lampi various

                            Comment

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