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  • Upsample PCM or dsd

    As ,any dacs do this and some with music servers like caps a made for purpose desktop server do this too.
    A few observations I have made over a couple of years that now some I now feel different .
    some dacs do play dsd better than PCM and vice versa As well so upsampling a format may be very handy but what to upsample and how far do we upsample .
    there is a thread on here from sound galleries perhaps the best music server ever put together for digital audio . It contains just about every kind of play back setup one could find under one roof .
    Getting back to upsampling while some dacs and two come to mind one being the Psaudio direct steam the other a hugo . While they do the upsample in diffent ways they still do not play back the input in native .
    I have tried upsampling in the past many times and never felt it improved things for me only my msb stack did it to where I felt it was better . Now please keep in mind better is like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in audio I think it is too.
    But resently I have to upsample PCM has its virtues , but not to just remove a bit of bite as normal does . What I have found is of we upsample PCM to dsd 512 like sound galleries does a few things happen .
    If I were to put into words what is the primary diffenence of great analog compared to great digital it's the following
    one is relaxing the music it may sound silly but it's a funditmenil in I feel analog is better in hiw it hits my brain
    next is air or sounds after the fundamental note is struck poor digital has little of this you may hesr it but not like analog gives it .
    another is attack in the presintaion PCM has too much attack as analog has the dynamics but not the edge .
    now all of the above are inproved over PCM with dsd I feel . But there is a part of note separation the analog has that most all dsd or PCM does not have even if it has the note thickness it should .
    nora jones in dsd is nice but some of her music in PCM fr me is painful as it seems to ring especially the piano on some songs .
    taking PCM weather it's redbook or hirez using HQ player or Jriver adds depth , removes ringing separates notes and relaxes the music . It even seems to improve the staging . On some tracks it brings me closer to the music . Buena vista social club . A pretty good PCM file while bass is muddy the piano and rough vocals are cool. When upsample to dsd 512 there is now magic it's dsd sound but more important it's it's analog like presintaion .
    These observations were done on the fly upsampling not offline . Now uosampling dsd is fruitless it simply smooths the music , while some claim dsd is smooth for me it's not what it does do is make the dynamics less causing a smoothness .
    for anyone who has access to the sound galleries or has a server that can upsample please try it it's a very worthwhile venture with a big payoff
    others please feel free to comment .

    bob of rapsidy ausio does the sel 2 upsample PCM to dsd ?
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    Thanks Al! Lots of good information out there especially when it comes to different DACs being friendlier to PCM or DSD

    Are there still NOS DACs still available? IIRC something like the AudioNote or 47 Labs?

    I like how you described the differences between the two mediums too!

    Air/spatial reproduction is one big area and the question is whether given the cost of recordings, record labels just prefer to add it back into the sound during the mixing. You know the air or sense of space on digital recordings is added in. Years ago, Sony even commissioned Ed Meitner to work out ways of artificially creating that sense of space.

    I think the relaxation has to do with the upper octave reproduction and feeling of edginess.

    I also just don't find that digital is yet able to give the feeling of dimensionality yet either. Better than the flat two dimensional images back in the '80s along with 2D dimensional depth.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
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    • #3
      Regarding dacs mine are all R2R for pcm and dsd to 256
      and chipless for all dsd up to 512
      even my msb is r2r as well.
      Now regading stage depth and special or air I too wonder where it comes from and on that thought great digital playback comes from what is perceived as a black background
      so how one has space and blackness is reallly not possible as air is heard and black is lack of any sounds around the notes. Crazy but if you sit in my room maybe you can explain when there.
      Now imaging is complex as most systems gives us left right and middle with variations but to have depth and height takes some special sauce stuff.
      Solid state dacs I have had only give the part with some of last part
      but my tube dac with the right recti does some magic for sure. Sounds come from behind and past the wings on sides
      a depth that goes deep and to the front
      as I roll recti I can calapse staging even make the presentation back or forward
      my point is it's there but the right tubes make it happen.
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
        As ,any dacs do this and some with music servers like caps a made for purpose desktop server do this too.
        A few observations I have made over a couple of years that now some I now feel different .
        some dacs do play dsd better than PCM and vice versa As well so upsampling a format may be very handy but what to upsample and how far do we upsample .
        there is a thread on here from sound galleries perhaps the best music server ever put together for digital audio . It contains just about every kind of play back setup one could find under one roof .
        Getting back to upsampling while some dacs and two come to mind one being the Psaudio direct steam the other a hugo . While they do the upsample in diffent ways they still do not play back the input in native .
        I have tried upsampling in the past many times and never felt it improved things for me only my msb stack did it to where I felt it was better . Now please keep in mind better is like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in audio I think it is too.
        But resently I have to upsample PCM has its virtues , but not to just remove a bit of bite as normal does . What I have found is of we upsample PCM to dsd 512 like sound galleries does a few things happen .
        If I were to put into words what is the primary diffenence of great analog compared to great digital it's the following
        one is relaxing the music it may sound silly but it's a funditmenil in I feel analog is better in hiw it hits my brain
        next is air or sounds after the fundamental note is struck poor digital has little of this you may hesr it but not like analog gives it .
        another is attack in the presintaion PCM has too much attack as analog has the dynamics but not the edge .
        now all of the above are inproved over PCM with dsd I feel . But there is a part of note separation the analog has that most all dsd or PCM does not have even if it has the note thickness it should .
        nora jones in dsd is nice but some of her music in PCM fr me is painful as it seems to ring especially the piano on some songs .
        taking PCM weather it's redbook or hirez using HQ player or Jriver adds depth , removes ringing separates notes and relaxes the music . It even seems to improve the staging . On some tracks it brings me closer to the music . Buena vista social club . A pretty good PCM file while bass is muddy the piano and rough vocals are cool. When upsample to dsd 512 there is now magic it's dsd sound but more important it's it's analog like presintaion .
        These observations were done on the fly upsampling not offline . Now uosampling dsd is fruitless it simply smooths the music , while some claim dsd is smooth for me it's not what it does do is make the dynamics less causing a smoothness .
        for anyone who has access to the sound galleries or has a server that can upsample please try it it's a very worthwhile venture with a big payoff
        others please feel free to comment .

        bob of rapsidy ausio does the sel 2 upsample PCM to dsd ?
        Supported Formats for Select II (Input dependent) 44.1kHz to 3,072kHz PCM up to 32 bits
        1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD
        Supports DSD via DoP on all inputs
        RHAPSODY.AUDIO

        http://www.rhapsody.audio




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