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  • #76
    The thing that's really exciting about digital right now (besides the "digital dingleberries") is the shift from having a general purpose computer connected to the DAC to using a small, lower power/noise purpose-built device instead. This sounds simple, but the implications are significant.
    • Substantial reduction in noise and interference
    • Lower cost and higher performance
    • Opens the door to multi-room, multi-zone audio
    The cost to build a media server that is quite as, for example, a SOtM sMS-200 is prohibitively high. With separates, you use a noisy, inexpensive media server. Stick it in an office or closet somewhere far from the listening room. Attach dead-silent streamers (eg., Sonore microRendu, SOtM sMS-200, Allo USBridge or DigiOne Player) to your DACs, and control the whole thing from your smartphones and tablets.

    To make things simple, if you are doing things this way, you're doing it the old, expensive, and noisy way:
    Click image for larger version

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    Instead, do things like this:
    Click image for larger version

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    Comment


    • mep
      mep commented
      Editing a comment
      I appreciate the effort you put into your post. The whole point of audio purpose built servers is not just to reduce the mechanical noise that you are addressing by stashing a regular computer in another room somewhere, but to minimize the amount of electrical noise that is caused by SMPS and all kinds of other noise electrical generated within the computer by all the devices that are attached to the motherboard. I have come to the conclusion that you really do need a great server designed for high end audio.

    • dsnyder0cnn
      dsnyder0cnn commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks...but you may have missed one of the points I've been trying to make...just want to make sure. You really don't need a great server that is designed for high-end audio. Expensive, audio-purpose-built servers were the old way but are no longer required. Moving the computer to another room that's far from the listening room almost always (but, you should verify) means moving it to a different electrical circuit. If you are still worried about electrical noise from switching mode power supplies in a computer that is on the other side of the house from your listening room, consider that your refrigerator or air conditioner likely generate orders of magnitude more electrical noise.

      Getting the computer out of the listening room doesn't just reduce the noise it contributes to that space; it effectively eliminates it. Instead of spending thousands of dollars on a purpose-built audio server, I recommend buying an Intel NUC and using the money saved to run wired Ethernet throughout your house and to buy nicer room treatments. I think you'll be glad that you did.
      Last edited by dsnyder0cnn; 02-18-2018, 07:28 PM.

    • Sgood@verizon.net
      Sgood@verizon.net commented
      Editing a comment
      @ dsnyder0cnn do you have any experience using Ethernet over power instead of having Ethernet run? I see Netgear and others make devices for this.

  • #77
    I need to get away from this thread it’s really so far from the truth it’s just ridicules. What concerns me most is the people who post in absolute terms are even more clueless
    and then don’t even remark on my correct posts
    and then do the grade school thing and ignor lol.
    So fellows enjoy the digital hap hazards on your own.
    I and Rex really wanted to help here but it seems real help is not needed.
    It’s a shame how people review products without even knowing how to use them correctly or to get the best out of them. Anyone who reviews shouid have some expertise of the product they plan to review. But this seems to be not as inportant as finding the kind words to write mostly based on misinformation of the device. What has happened to this hobby is the very concept of truth no longer of value. The risk of being sued or not being asked to review products is taken from them. Then comes the people selling there products and on the surface this is fine and welcomed but they too are in many ways clueless but hey they sell products so they know
    more then people who actually make them.
    The amount of misinformation that gets posted is absurd in digital and degrades the hobby even more
    on another forums someone who sellls stuff is pushing a 3500 clock upgrade on a end point or naa as some call it.
    The man does not care the poor smuck is using a Best Buy desk top to feed it. This is what’s wrong in this hobby
    a man uess a laptop that he uses for many other common functions and is Concerned about what usb cAble to use
    and of course the offers come complelty without merit
    and that it’s a laptop lol. But again it’s fine to offer choices of multi hundred dollar cables that I’ll bet bet fix
    his laptop wows , tv signal and dishwasher too. Is this
    right hell no but you do it and best yet ignore honesty
    what has happened to this and other places.
    Perhaos some digital acoustic paint and specialized
    ear plugs could help too.

    Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
    mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
    player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
    network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • dsnyder0cnn
      dsnyder0cnn commented
      Editing a comment
      Sorry that you feel this way and apologize if any of my posts are involved in the offense you have taken.

      Would you mind summarizing the key points you have made that seem to have gone unrecognized?

      Besides $3,500 clock upgrades and multi-hundred dollar cables, I'd also like to understand which points have been shared that you consider as misinformation. For example, I called out earlier today that putting a NAS in the listening room is almost always a bad idea because a NAS is a noisy beast. :-)

  • #78
    Lol sorry I am way past trying to help here it’s a king and his minions no one listens or even asks why
    i don’t take offense unless it becomes obvious as it is.
    Enjoy here as a rule All is kind and helpful.

    And its the Same on other forums in digital I expect it there so I go to war to prove things here it’s much more peaceful and surprising to me how much a club click it is.
    One would think to read and ask honest questions but it seems it’s hey look what I know and not care if it’s true just say things. I don’t think I should of said All I said but it is true this I know.
    Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
    mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
    player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
    network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #79
      Al-I don't know who you are referring to as the King here nor do I understand why you are so upset. I also don't get the "club click" remark because the only people that have banded together on this thread is you and Kingrex. What I have learned so far from this thread is that there is no consensus on a method to put together a digital system. NAS/no NAS, Ethernet/USB, endpoints, switches, bridges, renders, streamers, servers, DACS, and assorted other DDBs. Everybody has an opinion and some swear they have reached the digital promised land. Who to believe? Everyone needs to pick their gurus/experts carefully and right now I'm just gathering information to form my own opinions.
      SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

      Comment


      • dsnyder0cnn
        dsnyder0cnn commented
        Editing a comment
        I suppose you are correct that there's little consensus in this thread on the best way to go...but if you do drink the Roon Kool-Aid, there's a great deal of consensus on the Roon forums and in their knowledgebase around the best way to assemble a Roon system. The articles start here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/Architecture

        Not sure if you have read the other links that I've shared, but this information comes directly from the Roon folks and is trustworthy if you have decided on their software and service. I believe this architecture benefits other software like JRiver and Audirvana Plus, but Roon absolutely will not perform at its best unless you build your system around their recommendations. Wishing you the best on your journey. Cheers.

    • #80
      Mep, that’s not accurate to say Al and I are banded together. Al and I are frustrated in your starting this thread stating you’re going to do a review on my server. I own the unit you have. Al and I have worked together to take this unit to great heights. Every private and public offer of help from both of us to optimize the unit you have in your hands has been met with complete disregard. Not even a thanks but you want to go it alone when I sent pictures of all the Bios Settings. To compound the issue you have gone off on wild tangents about building your own server from a micro board and wanting to use an Apple operating system. Then there is the wildly untrue and completely false advice from others. There are right and wrong ways to set up a digital system. There are different formats, but some advice on this thread is just wrong. If you really want to learn about digital, go to Computer Audiophile and read. There are thousands of pages from users who have tried all sorts of combinations to obtain the best sound. They use Linn, Sonore, Innuos, SOTM and servers like mine. After a few months over there you will understand why we are frustrated.
      In the end, if you are going to do a professional published review on my server, it would be fair if you had a deeper education on what digital music is about. You should listen to my unit, an Antipodes, a Sonore and a Innuos. Then you will have an informed baseline to professionally put to print an accurate description of what you hear.
      PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
      Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
      Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

      Comment


      • #81
        Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
        Mep, that’s not accurate to say Al and I are banded together. Al and I are frustrated in your starting this thread stating you’re going to do a review on my server. I own the unit you have. Al and I have worked together to take this unit to great heights. Every private and public offer of help from both of us to optimize the unit you have in your hands has been met with complete disregard. Not even a thanks but you want to go it alone when I sent pictures of all the Bios Settings. To compound the issue you have gone off on wild tangents about building your own server from a micro board and wanting to use an Apple operating system. Then there is the wildly untrue and completely false advice from others. There are right and wrong ways to set up a digital system. There are different formats, but some advice on this thread is just wrong. If you really want to learn about digital, go to Computer Audiophile and read. There are thousands of pages from users who have tried all sorts of combinations to obtain the best sound. They use Linn, Sonore, Innuos, SOTM and servers like mine. After a few months over there you will understand why we are frustrated.
        In the end, if you are going to do a professional published review on my server, it would be fair if you had a deeper education on what digital music is about. You should listen to my unit, an Antipodes, a Sonore and a Innuos. Then you will have an informed baseline to professionally put to print an accurate description of what you hear.
        First of all, I never said I'm going to review the server you own. I don't think you have the latest and greatest server from Mojo. I think the one that you have is one that I previously reviewed for Positive Feedback. I also never said I was going to go off and build my own server from a micro board. I just went back and read this thread from the beginning and you are just putting words in my mouth. And none of that has anything to do with why I started this thread. Go back and read my opening statement.

        And lastly, I don't need advice from you on how to review gear.
        SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

        Comment


        • #82
          Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
          ...Then there is the wildly untrue and completely false advice from others. There are right and wrong ways to set up a digital system. There are different formats, but some advice on this thread is just wrong...
          Hmmm, Alrainbow had similar concerns. I re-read this thread from start to finish today as well, and the only thing I came across that seemed completely incorrect was a suggestion to put a NAS into the listening room.

          I did ask Alrainbow to make a list of points that fell into the category of "misinformation." Might you be willing to provide a list of suggestions from this thread that you feel are false, untrue, or wrong? You have both indicated that mep has been provided with inaccurate advice, but without specifics, how can he or any of us learn and improve?

          Comment


          • #83
            Ok, I reread. You are still seeking advice on different approaches and wondering about an Intel NUC and wishing for an apple operating system. Fair enough. I took it for more.

            If you are who I think you are, you have the same power supply and mother board as I do. Your case is different. Otherwise they are the same. Therefore I believe I know your unit and have very good insight into how it performs best. I have duel boot and can compare the before and after. I also believe I know how your unit was configured from the manufacturer and it was not done for best sonic performance. I and Al were offering to share how to get it to that level. Mojo audio would configure the machine the same way Al and I did if you asked them for such. I too started out scared but found out its not that hard to operate and run a fully optimized unit. Learning how to make your own micro adjustments to best integrate it to your setup is more difficult. It has amazing flexibility, but takes learning and experimentation to get the most with your entire system.

            Deleted off topic.

            lastly, I did not quite understand your comment you are not reviewing the server I own. Are you reviewing the Deejays Vu server or not?

            PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
            Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
            Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

            Comment


            • #84
              Originally posted by dsnyder0cnn View Post

              Hmmm, Alrainbow had similar concerns. I re-read this thread from start to finish today as well, and the only thing I came across that seemed completely incorrect was a suggestion to put a NAS into the listening room.

              I did ask Alrainbow to make a list of points that fell into the category of "misinformation." Might you be willing to provide a list of suggestions from this thread that you feel are false, untrue, or wrong? You have both indicated that mep has been provided with inaccurate advice, but without specifics, how can he or any of us learn and improve?
              I am not willing to participate, the why is the misinformation spewed here. Just the comment of nas in your room shows me continued misinformation
              in short there is no reason to not have your nas in your room mine is
              it has 4 8TB drives spinning do I hear them NO
              why they are vibration isolated and the case is big enough to have a passive cpu fan and two large fans to move air
              maybe I am deaf as I have to put my ear right up to it to hear if the drives are even running as they are on there own lps and at times I forget to put them on.
              Kingrex is 100% right and mep your a nice guy but clueless in this. I do enjoy reading this lol and no I’m not upset but I am fustrated like kingrex. And I see from reading above the parade continues to flow when does it end.
              Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
              mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
              player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
              network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #85
                Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post

                I am not willing to participate, the why is the misinformation spewed here. Just the comment of nas in your room shows me continued misinformation
                in short there is no reason to not have your nas in your room mine is
                it has 4 8TB drives spinning do I hear them NO
                why they are vibration isolated and the case is big enough to have a passive cpu fan and two large fans to move air
                maybe I am deaf as I have to put my ear right up to it to hear if the drives are even running as they are on there own lps and at times I forget to put them on.
                Kingrex is 100% right and mep your a nice guy but clueless in this. I do enjoy reading this lol and no I’m not upset but I am fustrated like kingrex. And I see from reading above the parade continues to flow when does it end.
                I don't think anyone is trying to spew misinformation here. Digital is just like the rest of this wacky hobby-nobody agrees on anything. You should know that by now. People are just sharing their opinions and that is what I asked for. How many different permutations of a digital audio network do you think are possible? How many people even have the same building blocks in their digital audio network? Given those obvious answers, how do you expect people not to promote their network method and the products they chose to use? Just like you and Kingrex. The only problem I see here is that both of you have your nose out of joint because other people are chiming in with their ideas and you both don't like their ideas and now you are running people down because you don't agree with them.. And Kingrex doesn't take the time to read what I have said before he goes off and makes up his own words and goes off on a tangent.

                My goal in starting this thread was what I stated in my opening paragraph: "I have asked numerous times for members who are way into digital audio to diagram out all of the digital dingle berries you need to have in your chain to achieve a high level of SQ for playback of files and streaming. No one has addressed this yet. I'm trying to see if there is any consensus on the devices that are needed vice brand names that you are using at this point. I am beginning to understand that my choice of using a laptop for a server is not an optimized solution."

                I asked that because I truly want to see how people on this forum have chosen their components and setup their networks. I have been running a strictly WiFi digital network for years now. USB drives into a laptop server, laptop WiFi server running JRiver, connected to the Mytek Stereo 192 which decodes PCM digital up to 24/192 and DSD up to DSD 128. JRiver is controlled by iPad remote. I am looking at upgrading my digital setup and I wanted to see what others were doing and make up my own mind on if there is a "best practices" way of setting up a digital network. For instance, moving away from USB drives feeding the server and switching over to NAS. It was never my intent for people to get mad and throw hissy fits because people participating in this thread didn't automatically sense their genius.
                SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

                Comment


                • #86
                  Nobody has mentioned this yet, but I will. Is anyone running Audio Optimizer on their server?
                  SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

                  Comment


                  • #87
                    Is anyone running Audio Optimizer on their server?
                    By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. My belief is, do not run any optimizers. I define an optimizer as any thing used in Windows or I suppose it could be on a Mac as well, with the purpose of negating functions in the operating system. It adds complexity. I think it's better to remove the objectionable/unnecessary pieces by running a purpose built device. An operating system that only offers the functions needed for playing music reduces latency.

                    I think this is most important for the media player. I am uncertain about the impact on a server.

                    Comment


                    • #88
                      Here is a thought it was mentioned in one of my posts.
                      Given a laptop is not optimal I suggested a few options to try. Not just to you but another reviewer too. No reply lol
                      A spec grade usb cAble by a name brand maker not Audio Phile maker
                      example beldon usb 3.0 certified
                      next if your dac does not need the 5 volt buss try a power cutter
                      if allowed remove the power supply to your laptop
                      go into laptop bios reconfigure options I listed
                      try a used REGEN second or final release version even with there wall watt
                      even a jitter bug. These products if bought used is a good try they filter the noise on the usb buss power
                      And don’t use a usb hub
                      go to settings into your laptop and turn off all power conservation options
                      turn off all services not needed.
                      The point is not saying anything to People is also misinformation in my view. Offer to sell a usb cAble. And ignor my comments shows malicious ignorance a really bad combo. If I use a 10k server and don’t begin to say why it’s better than a laptop or offer why but still say hey I got usb cables you can buy is not 😎
                      i offered you my cell why to Speak honestly of what can be done and not put down claims in an open forums and help of course. When david said the best digital he has heard was over a airport express or digital has not improved in many years did you or anyone here says he is crazy NO you did not. Why don’t want to hurt his obvious blindness that’s against digital sound period.

                      And david your entitled to your views just like I am.
                      Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
                      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                      mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
                      mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
                      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
                      player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
                      network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

                      Comment


                      • dsnyder0cnn
                        dsnyder0cnn commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Alrainbow, cool. Thanks for the list.

                    • #89
                      Randy maybe I am misunderstanding your comment
                      but my thoughts on optimization is just what you say it’s not. It shuts down what’s not needed for you.
                      Fidalizer is a simple to try or more complex audio optimizer and both even better.
                      Having said this first is the bios and other mentioned options in my and king Rex posts.
                      Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
                      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                      mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
                      mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
                      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
                      player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
                      network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

                      Comment


                      • RandyRobinson
                        RandyRobinson commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Al, I'm saying it's better to have an operating system that only performs the functions needed rather than trying to shut down functions that are in the operating system with an optimizer.

                    • #90
                      Randy onnthe surface your chew makes great sense but the issue becomes who is making this custom OS
                      linux versions are all over the internet but linux is not windows and sounds to me thin and frail.
                      If you go windows 10 even there sever version it’s very complex to strip it. And of the three windows versions
                      10 is the most friendly and worst sound.
                      Server 2012 is much better and 2016 is best even just installed and nothing optimized its way better than 10 any version.
                      Fid pro or Audio optimizer rule in attaining the top end
                      I have shutdown scripts that shut down many services and
                      telemitries in widows too custom stuff but still fid pro and AO yield the best sound yet.
                      Of your computier savey. Download win server 2016
                      essentials or data center gui it’s free
                      download the iso make a boot usb thumb drive
                      install a used hard drive for f 64gb space and try it.
                      Be amazed how good it sounds as is.
                      Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
                      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                      mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
                      mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
                      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
                      player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
                      network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

                      Comment

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