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  • #91
    Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
    in short there is no reason to not have your nas in your room mine is
    it has 4 8TB drives spinning do I hear them NO
    why they are vibration isolated and the case is big enough to have a passive cpu fan and two large fans to move air
    maybe I am deaf as I have to put my ear right up to it to hear if the drives are even running as they are on there own lps and at times I forget to put them on.
    Hmmm...you seem to have provided a fairly compelling reason not to have a NAS in the listening room right here: the added effort and expense required to build a NAS with a big case that has large fans and vibration isolation and is powered by an LPS. Those things aren't bad, but they aren't free, and they aren't necessary if the NAS is on the other side of the house.

    My objection to putting a NAS in the listening room is not misinformation...it's just common-sense, isn't it? Literally, the first letter in NAS stands for "Network"; the device is intended to be networked. There's no advantage (that I can think of) to having a NAS in your listening room, so it's better to put it on the network on the other side of the house than to attempt to mitigate the noise and vibrations.

    Granted, building a home network has costs associated with it too, but it's an investment in your home that will likely have other uses. Your home network will also likely last longer than your NAS, so it's a better place to invest for most people.

    Again, I mean no offense, and I'm not naive enough to think that I will convince you to change your mind. You may disagree with my opinion regarding placement of the NAS, but perhaps now you have a better understanding of how I arrived at that opinion.

    Comment


    • Kingrex
      Kingrex commented
      Editing a comment
      Next week I should be picking up a high end audiophile network switch. I will have 3 comparison to make. 1 does is make a difference. 2 how does it sound in my basement by my router and network panel. 3 how does it sound next to my computer connected with short CAT 7 jumpers to my server with the NAS right there.

      The switch will also go to Joe's house to be evaluated in the same fashion with his Lumin gear. Between our 2 houses we should be able to put to bed some assumption on switches, location and connected wiring.

      I do agree a house with network wiring is more valuable than not, yet out of the last 10 houses I wired only 1 required network wiring. This is Seattle, a tech hub. Every house is worth over a million I worked on. Go figure. Seems everyone thinks wifi is the answer.

  • #92
    Go to Computer Audiophile and read the thread started by Al about "Operating Systems and their Sound Signatures". In there people talk about there impressions using this or that OS. I believe one of the people commenting is a developer for Sonore. He gives very detailed analysis of how operating systems change the sound and why they opt for the systems they use in the Rendu products. There is 13 pages of reading in that one thread. It is long and tedious with a bit of that cant be true, as well as, I tried it and it made a noticeable difference. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that OS make a difference in how something sounds. Selecting the correct one is important.
    PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
    Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
    Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

    Comment


  • #93
    Originally posted by mep View Post
    Nobody has mentioned this yet, but I will. Is anyone running Audio Optimizer on their server?
    I was using Fidelizer Pro back when I had a Quantum Byte Fanless PC running JRiver in the listening room. It definitely seemed to help; however, now that I'm using the Allo.com USBridge with Roon, Fidelizer has become unnecessary.

    If you are still asking about things like Audio Optimizer, this tells me that you are still focused on the older architecture that has the DAC directly attached to a general purpose PC or server. That's totally fine if that's what you want to do, but in my experience, it generally leads to spending more money on a system with less flexibility and inferior performance compared to the distributed architecture that I have described and that Roon Labs specifically recommends.
    Fidelizer improves sound quality by optimizing Windows audio platform at core level, making your system sound like listening to real sound.

    Comment


    • #94
      I have no skin in the game but let’s all take a deep breath and stay on topic eg. Digital setup and not attack individuals, reviewers or magazines. There’s lots of useful information here and let’s all sit back and digest it. There’s lot’s of paths to Rome and it’s a success if someone gets one thing out of the thread to improve their PB systems.

      If you think changing habits and minds is easy, come shadow me someday at work! So just present your case succinctly.
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
      -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #95
        Originally posted by dsnyder0cnn View Post

        Hmmm...you seem to have provided a fairly compelling reason not to have a NAS in the listening room right here: the added effort and expense required to build a NAS with a big case that has large fans and vibration isolation and is powered by an LPS. Those things aren't bad, but they aren't free, and they aren't necessary if the NAS is on the other side of the house.

        My objection to putting a NAS in the listening room is not misinformation...it's just common-sense, isn't it? Literally, the first letter in NAS stands for "Network"; the device is intended to be networked. There's no advantage (that I can think of) to having a NAS in your listening room, so it's better to put it on the network on the other side of the house than to attempt to mitigate the noise and vibrations.

        Granted, building a home network has costs associated with it too, but it's an investment in your home that will likely have other uses. Your home network will also likely last longer than your NAS, so it's a better place to invest for most people.

        Again, I mean no offense, and I'm not naive enough to think that I will convince you to change your mind. You may disagree with my opinion regarding placement of the NAS, but perhaps now you have a better understanding of how I arrived at that opinion.
        No offense isntaken and I am glad for the continued discussion. Yes mike is expensive by a synology standard. I also had them at one time they are also pretty silent as well. My reason for not keeping them far is not a must but a convenience that most post not to try. Go on most any forums and read it’s never should be done like it’s a high volume exhaust fan lol. My room is big at 20/9/55 deep I get that. But these are really quit devices
        my nas performs a few functions as well.
        Its my music routuer / network switch and nas server it has two 100 watt lps psu s
        one for its desktop mainbjard and one for its hard drives
        it also has a 4 port server grade network card
        all in it cost me about 4K maybe less
        it also Will Tina CUST synology program soon as well.
        Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
        mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
        player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
        network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • #96
          Originally posted by dsnyder0cnn View Post

          I was using Fidelizer Pro back when I had a Quantum Byte Fanless PC running JRiver in the listening room. It definitely seemed to help; however, now that I'm using the Allo.com USBridge with Roon, Fidelizer has become unnecessary.

          If you are still asking about things like Audio Optimizer, this tells me that you are still focused on the older architecture that has the DAC directly attached to a general purpose PC or server. That's totally fine if that's what you want to do, but in my experience, it generally leads to spending more money on a system with less flexibility and inferior performance compared to the distributed architecture that I have described and that Roon Labs specifically recommends.
          Lucipher posted here at one time. I had heard of it but never used it. I did after some discussion wpth him and do Recomend his products. A good man and very smart programmer.
          My hope in that in the very near future to post of a ground breaking digital product for us all.
          My setup is extreme and I don’t except expect others to follow. But would love some more kingrex posters that can tell there own tails.
          Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
          mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
          mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
          player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
          network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

          Comment


          • #97
            Originally posted by dsnyder0cnn View Post

            I was using Fidelizer Pro back when I had a Quantum Byte Fanless PC running JRiver in the listening room. It definitely seemed to help; however, now that I'm using the Allo.com USBridge with Roon, Fidelizer has become unnecessary.

            If you are still asking about things like Audio Optimizer, this tells me that you are still focused on the older architecture that has the DAC directly attached to a general purpose PC or server. That's totally fine if that's what you want to do, but in my experience, it generally leads to spending more money on a system with less flexibility and inferior performance compared to the distributed architecture that I have described and that Roon Labs specifically recommends.
            Part two. Yes roon has some concepts to follow but this does not lead to best sound over all.
            What they do is give us many choices to play our music.
            The real answer is complex but having a real server of some level is a must but having it next to your dac is not.
            A HB or rendu naa allows for this. That is where I think confusion starts in that great sound needs a server.
            Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
            mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
            player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
            network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • RandyRobinson
              RandyRobinson commented
              Editing a comment
              Al, what is an HB? Are you using an ultrarendu?

          • #98
            Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
            I have no skin in the game but let’s all take a deep breath and stay on topic eg. Digital setup and not attack individuals, reviewers or magazines. There’s lots of useful information here and let’s all sit back and digest it. There’s lot’s of paths to Rome and it’s a success if someone gets one thing out of the thread to improve their PB systems.

            If you think changing habits and minds is easy, come shadow me someday at work! So just present your case succinctly.
            Hello Myles your. Day late and you know the rest lol. I thank you for your post but I do feel things have gone back on track
            Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
            mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
            player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
            network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #99
              Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post

              Part two. Yes roon has some concepts to follow but this does not lead to best sound over all.
              What they do is give us many choices to play our music.
              The real answer is complex but having a real server of some level is a must but having it next to your dac is not.
              A HB or rendu naa allows for this. That is where I think confusion starts in that great sound needs a server.
              Are you saying that you shouldn't have your server setting next to your DAC or that you don't have to make that a requirement?
              SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

              Comment


              • The short answer is it be close or far
                long answr later
                Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
                speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
                mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
                digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
                player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
                network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

                Comment


                • Humming board it’s a home made ultra rendu with a CUST linux OS. uses a 5 volt usb power lps of course but nothing crazy
                  Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
                  speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                  mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
                  mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
                  digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
                  player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
                  network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

                  Comment


                  • dsnyder0cnn
                    dsnyder0cnn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I think I found it: https://www.solid-run.com/nxp-family/hummingboard/

                    Looks similar to the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. I'd like to understand if there's anything about the design of the HummingBoard that makes it more suitable for digital audio applications than the RPi3 or Allo Sparky (https://www.allo.com/sparky/sparky-sbc.html). It looks like the Ethernet port on the HummingBoard supports speeds up to 470mbps, but 100mbps is plenty for streaming audio. There is a COAX S/PDIF output on some models of the HummingBoard, but no mention of the quality/jitter for the clock chips used or if there are dedicated 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz time-base clocks like on the upper-end HiFiBerry add-on boards for the RPi.

                    Thanks for sharing...please share more information about this and why you would prefer it to the Raspberry Pi or Sparky.

                • For those that don't know it yet, Roon has come out with two different servers called the Nucleus and the Nucleus+ that are both based on the Intel NUC. These servers were designed and produced in conjunction with Intel. They do not have a Windows OS. Roon has their own proprietary OS on them as well as the Roon software.
                  SP-10 MKII table with custom power supply designed and built by Peter Noerbaek with an SME 3012R with Dyna XV-1S cartridge, VPI Avenger table with rim drive and JMW -12-3D arrm with Lyra Etna SL cartridge, Zesto Andros 1.2 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, NOLA KO speakers with a pair of Def Tech Ref subs, and a pair of JBL 4345 speakers.

                  Comment


                  • dsnyder0cnn
                    dsnyder0cnn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I saw that a while back. The Nucleus/Nucleus+ look beautiful, but I really don't see the point since, when deployed per the manufacturer's instructions, they will be stuffed into a closet somewhere far from the listening room. DAR has a bit more info on his site from seven months ago:

                    https://darko.audio/2017/05/roon-ann...ucleus-server/

                    Looks like these are priced at $1.4k and $2.5k for the i3 and i7 versions, respectively.

                    https://www.paragonsns.com/product/roon-nucleus/

                    However, in the video, Danny explains that apart from cosmetics and the power supply, there's really no functional difference between the build-it-yourself ROCK kit and the pre-assembled Nucleus servers. He goes on to explain that the Nucleus servers are just for people who are not comfortable assembling a NUC and appreciate the cosmetics of a turn-key product.

                  • Alex Siufy
                    Alex Siufy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    We're getting one of those units for a test run. Seems interesting, when used correctly (stuffed in the closet somewhere far from the listening room).
                    The point here being this is a NETWORK server, thus all it has to do is be on the network. Putting it next to the system is not required.
                    And the Roon OS is Linux-based.

                • Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post

                  Lucipher posted here at one time. I had heard of it but never used it. I did after some discussion wpth him and do Recomend his products. A good man and very smart programmer.
                  My hope in that in the very near future to post of a ground breaking digital product for us all.
                  My setup is extreme and I don’t except expect others to follow. But would love some more kingrex posters that can tell there own tails.
                  It’s been a challenge to measure digital audio’s qualities and most of the time audiophiles don’t know any measurement outside RMAA’s analog metrics
                  Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                  Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                  ________________________________________

                  -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
                  -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
                  -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
                  -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
                  -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                  -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                  -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                  -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                  -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
                  -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

                  Comment


                  • If ok I would like to list a quick pro and cons
                    pro
                    cheap
                    uses roon os
                    roon forums to help support
                    roon SER can be headless
                    fully function and I think can steam to hq and jriver
                    can stream to a naa end point
                    runs linux os. Fast , stable
                    can use internal hard drive or usb ornnwt work storage



                    cons
                    close pc board means poor isolation of components
                    poor power regulation. Does not improve greatly with a lps
                    this means little room to upgrade
                    poor audio if windows used os
                    runs linux This means it sounds like linux a cheap version at that. Linux is thin and hollow , does not have note decay this means it’s decay is fast and unrealistic
                    horns and piano show this best as an example
                    the poor regulation leads to bad sound on top of the linux sound
                    A simple store bought desktop or even a good laptop can be made to sound better.
                    Was made for colleged kids a cheap small desktop
                    gets used by people sold on the idea leads power means better sound
                    gets sold on simplicity in use and forums posting as the
                    new thing that’s great.

                    In short a nice start but cannot attain great sound overall.
                    Sorry the Nuc s both these two new ones and the older.
                    only no raspberry Pi or HB

                    AS for what’s better they are not the same
                    man HB is linux if done well and does not change the sound it galv isolates and uses better windows drivers
                    it can do more like runs hard drive and can be an I7 over stock I5. The point is low power and just use it as a naa. It’s cheap remote usb for your dac that works very well.
                    The others can do this but miss the design criteria by doing more. And as such influence the sound being linux. Hope this helps.
                    Last edited by Alrainbow; 02-19-2018, 10:35 PM.
                    Room built for purpose 20/9/55 ft
                    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                    mark levivson pre no 26 Amps no 33
                    mogami gold mic interconnects , new soon
                    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO 2.20 and cust Linux Kernal for NAS
                    player roon server , dac PC HQ player USB power cut at main board
                    network isolators cat 7a shielded , LPS for all pcs and network switches and routers. Audio network ips dedicated nas is music and network switch and router. Dacs lampi various

                    Comment


                    • rbbert
                      rbbert commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Pros and cons of what? Roon?

                    • dsnyder0cnn
                      dsnyder0cnn commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Hmmm...I found references that indicate the HummingBoard SBC supports Andriod OS and a number of different Linux distributions.

                      After a few minutes of searching, I could find no links indicating that it the Roon OS (ROCK) or MS Windows is supported. Please share a link if you have one handy.

                      The HummingBoard SBC's are inexpensive, but 2-3x more expensive than the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B or Allo Sparky.

                      The Allo USBridge that I'm using to run DietPi and Roon Bridge today definitely does not sound thin or hollow. Perhaps not all Linux systems sound the same?

                    • dsnyder0cnn
                      dsnyder0cnn commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I think this is pros and cons of the HummingBoard small board computers vs. the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B and Allo Sparky.

                  • I have not tried this server, but it looks like a nice wallet-friendly ($695) alternative to the Roon Nucleus/Nucleus+

                    https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/c...nt=20893269700

                    Details from the site below:

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    Make your music available to network music players with the ultimate music server. The sonicTransporter i5 runs Roon Server, Squeezebox Server, and MinimServer (DLNA server). Attach a USB drive full of music or a NAS and your music will be available to virtually any network player.

                    With an i5 processor and SSD (for your music database), the sonicTransporter i5 is perfect for lightning fast access to your music. Attach a Sonore Rendu series player to your USB DAC to have a complete digital transport solution.

                    The sonicTransporter i5 also works great with Sonos network speakers. Listen to your local music or iTunes music files on Sonos speakers at any time without ever turning on your home computer.

                    Roon Server is preinstalled but you need to purchase a license from Roon Labs or take advantage of a free trial. The sonicTransporter i5 exceeds Roon Labs hardware specifications

                    If you want a simple all in one solution we also have the option of an internal SSD drive. See options above.

                    Music collection size

                    The sonicTransporter i5 is designed for a music library of 1 - 450K tracks. This includes Red Book audio, DSD, and Hi-Rez. If your music library is larger then 450K tracks we recommend a custom solution. Contact us for you music storage needs.

                    60 day Roon Trial

                    This product ships with a 60 day Roon free trial.

                    Warranty:
                    • 30 days to return any of our products, No Questions Asked...
                    • 1-year warranty on parts and labor
                    • Lifetime free technical support
                    SPECIFICATIONS:

                    CONNECTIVITY
                    • Network: Gigabit Ethernet RJ45
                    • USB: 2 x USB 3.0 ports and 2 x USB 2.0 ports only one can be used for a USB drive
                    • Power: 12VDC input
                    • Network Protocols: DLNA, Samba (Sonos® and others), Squeezebox®, Roon (RAAT)
                    ACOUSTIC NOISE
                    • 0dB (Noiseless)
                    USER INTERFACE
                    • Web user interface for configuration from a web browser or table
                    DIMENSIONS:
                    • 2.25 x 5.25 x 6.75 in. (58 x 134 x 172 mm)
                    • 2.4 lbs (1 kg)
                    INCLUDES:
                    • 12v 5A power supply (120v - 220v) and power cord (US)
                    • 1m LAN cable
                    OPERATING ENVIRONMENT:
                    • 0° C to 40° C
                    STORAGE:
                    • 64GB SSD for server database (Roon Server, Squeezebox, DLNA) no local music storage.
                    • Optional internal storage for music library
                    • Compatible with any USB attached hard drive
                    • Compatible with almost any NAS (Synology, QNAP, Western Digital, Buffalo)
                    POWER CONSUMPTION:
                    • 9 Watts

                    Power adapter requirements (if you want to provide your own):
                    • 12VDC at 3 amps
                    • 5.5mm OD x 2.5mm ID DC adapter jack (center positive)

                    Comment

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