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  • Electronic Crossover

    Anyone know of a good electronic crossover. I was told the DBX VENU360 is good. I kind of consider DBX as Pro Audio and more features than I want.
    PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
    Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
    Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

  • #2
    Pass Labs makes a fairly simple one. There's also Bryston and Marchand.
    Tannoy Glenair, April Sound SET 50 monoblocks and LR phono, EMIA silver remote attenuator and Strain Gauge, Mono TT - AE 208 TT, Abis 1.2BCS arm Miyajima Premium BE, Stereo TT - Fairchild 750 Schroder Custom BA, Miyajima Kansui, Mac Mini w/ Roon, Bel Canto RefLink, Dac 3.5VB, Wadia 860x.

    Comment


    • Barry
      Barry commented
      Editing a comment
      The Pass Labs B4 is a great recommendation if you're ok with single ended and only need a 2-way. Check it out at Reno Hi-Fi for $1.5K. I also second the Marchand recommendation.

      I have never never heard a DBX but would be a little leery of its sound quality.

  • #3
    You want all analog or are you considering dsp? Are you needing any eq or compensation filters?
    Regards,

    Erik
    http://solypsa.com
    North American distributor for:
    Sensitive Sound MC Cartridges
    STST Turntables + Tonearms


    Available for in home setup and calibration of fine turntable systems

    Comment


    • Kingrex
      Kingrex commented
      Editing a comment
      I dont think so. I had a DEQX and it did not work for me.

    • solypsa
      solypsa commented
      Editing a comment
      Got it. Pretty sure the dbx is dsp based...

  • #4
    Awesome. I'm 2 channel single ended
    PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
    Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
    Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

    Comment


    • #5
      Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
      Awesome. I'm 2 channel single ended
      I owned a First Watt B4 (latest production) its a great piece as Gary mentioned, you can cascade 2, 3, 4 or more for multi-way systems. Its a unity gain device which means it doesn't add gain (good) and is as transparent an elec xover as you'd expect to find at any price. Its DC coupled with no caps in series with the signal (more goodness). Nelson stated elsewhere he uses a FET device in the B4 that's NOS and scarce, once gone the B4 will cease production.
      Linn Kilmax LP12 | Linn Uphorik | Innous ZENMini | Kii Three

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      • #6
        Krell used to make the KBX.

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        • #7
          I have been using multi amped systems for almost 35 years. I have used crossovers from Luxman,Krell and Audio Research. Every time the whole system would take on the character of the crossover. So with the Krell the system would sound like those early Krell pre amps etc.

          20 Years ago I stumbled across the Marchand XM 46. It is a passive line stage crossover. It is the most neutral I could find and have been used in bi,tri and currently quad amp configuration. It is dead quiet in my ultra high efficiency system ,works perfectly withany pre amp with a less than 600 ohm output impedance and,as far as I can tell, have minimal insertion loss- Marchand claims less than 1 db. I'm happy.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	xm46b.jpg Views:	1 Size:	46.5 KB ID:	108920

          https://www.marchandelec.com/xm46-pllxo.html

          Comment


          • Rob
            Rob commented
            Editing a comment
            I didn't get around to trying the Marchand, its a simple passive RLC network and can be very transparent or 'neutral' as you say. What i didn't particularly like about the B4 was the low 10k ohm input impedance which isnt optimum for the tube preamp I used at the time.

          • Kingrex
            Kingrex commented
            Editing a comment
            The marchand looks basic and affordable. I left a message with them. It might be good to have phase alignment too. That seems to cost more and be electronic. I had a designer here a couple nights ago and he pointed out how my bass is low and to the sides with the vocals centered correct. That is with the stock crossover. Could just be placement.

            I want to try and cut the frequency off more steeply to the horn. I am hearing a slow role off may allow the horn to try and play to low and distort.

            He also disliked I had some of my wires alligator clipped to my drivers.{:

        • #8
          Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
          Anyone know of a good electronic crossover. I was told the DBX VENU360 is good. I kind of consider DBX as Pro Audio and more features than I want.
          What exactly are you wanting to do?

          Comment


          • mep
            mep commented
            Editing a comment
            If it was me, I would stop buying speakers from the same manufacturer that you are never happy with and feel the need to change the crossover. This is the second time this has happened to you.

          • Kingrex
            Kingrex commented
            Editing a comment
            Why don't you tell us the one magic speaker we are all suppose to purchase MEP so all our systems can sound as good as yours,

          • mep
            mep commented
            Editing a comment
            I have never told anyone they should buy the speakers I own or any other piece of gear I own for that matter. I just wouldn't keep buying products from a company that always left me unhappy after purchasing them.

        • #9
          There is no really transparent electronic crossover. I have tried a bunch. Including Marchand tube active, Audio Research of several stripes and some solid state including Bryston. The Pass B4 looks interesting and very reasonable for what you get- I have not used it. I like the idea of the passive Marchand and if I were to guess it would be your most "transparent".

          Having said all that, crossovers on the power band side in a typical speaker are power and phase killers. I do like crossing over on the low signal side --- I ended up with a simple first order with a very high quality cap in the end which I thought was worth the compromise for purity and I made it work. Good luck with your project.

          It is supposed to be fun and there's nothing wrong with experimentation.


          Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
          Brinkmann La Grange & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
          Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
          Pre-Amps: ARC SP 3a, Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
          Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2

          Comment


          • Kingrex
            Kingrex commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks kcin. I agree. I have learned so much through my experimentation. There is no greater eye opener to the impact of a crossover than direct connecting your Voxativ driver to an amp. I was stunned. Boy do those caps, chokes and resistors have an impact.

            I don't see me getting rid of my speakers any time soon. For me, they are a fantastic venue to enjoyable sound. For a long time I wanted to try a horn. There has always been a yearning in me to work with one. I believe most here who have one would say it takes time to tune them. in reality, I am finding the entire audio chain is a 'process of matching the right components to achieve optimum playback.

            I like my horns for a lot of music, but I also like drivers. I think adding a crossover with adjustability will allow me to better integrate the horn, substitute in a mid\high driver and experiment with biamping. I could never do all that with a regular speaker. It could be said regular speakers absolutely limit you to what they are. The only way to go through all the iterations I can try with mine would be to purchase multiple sets. WOW that would be expensive.

            I did not even share I am building a ported box to try the Audio Nirvana driver in. It will be a direct coupled full range driver in a ported box. I'm getting close to 4 speakers for the price of maybe one and a half. I call that a good deal.

            Thanks all for the feedback. I definitely have some choices on crossovers now. I hope to stick with passive unless I feel active will ultimately fulfill the need.

          • Kingrex
            Kingrex commented
            Editing a comment
            I was rereading what you said Kcin and crossover, even passive are killers on the power side. I know of some speaker designer that are constantly altering the wiring, caps and chokes in their crossovers to deal with the issues these parts bring. I said this before but I was stunned when a consultant told me to listen to my voxativ direct coupled to my amp. It was the most pure beautiful violins and horns I ever heard. It fell apart on vocals as the bass was not there. Hence single drivers are installed in a transition line or ported cabinet. Sure these have issues to as its hard to manage bass modes. They also don't seem to present a "wall" of sound.

            It's not that I am dissatisfied with my speakers. It's more I heard what can be achieved. I am striving to recreate it with my parts in hand.

        • #10
          Pure Audio offers a version of the Pass themselves so it should be easy to get some user experience with the combo...

          If the Marchand and Pass offerings don't grab you there is also the SPL Crossover (more of a studio product but all analog unlike the dbx)
          Last edited by solypsa; 02-25-2019, 12:29 PM. Reason: clarity
          Regards,

          Erik
          http://solypsa.com
          North American distributor for:
          Sensitive Sound MC Cartridges
          STST Turntables + Tonearms


          Available for in home setup and calibration of fine turntable systems

          Comment


          • #11
            Ok, here is what I would like to do. I first off need a inexpensive pro audio corssover. Something that has adjustable slope, Freq. polarity and resistance. I can find that. Its throw away anyways.

            I also need speaker analyzing software with a Mic. Once I have the values selected I ditch the pro audio piece and get a decent unit. I may get the Marchand, or I may have Tom Tutay build me one. Not sure yet.

            Anyone still reading have a suggestion on the Speaker Analysis Software with Mic. I have not searched other threads for this. Maybe it has been addressed.

            Thanks
            PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
            Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
            Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

            Comment


            • #12
              Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
              Ok, here is what I would like to do. I first off need a inexpensive pro audio corssover. Something that has adjustable slope, Freq. polarity and resistance. I can find that. Its throw away anyways.

              I also need speaker analyzing software with a Mic. Once I have the values selected I ditch the pro audio piece and get a decent unit. I may get the Marchand, or I may have Tom Tutay build me one. Not sure yet.

              Anyone still reading have a suggestion on the Speaker Analysis Software with Mic. I have not searched other threads for this. Maybe it has been addressed.

              Thanks
              REW is the software you seek for speaker analyzing get a calibrated mic and start measuring.I am unaware of any all analog xovers that will do what you want, however if you are willing to use a DSP the the Pro Audio Xilica 4080 might be what you are looking for!!!

              Comment


              • Barry
                Barry commented
                Editing a comment
                REW IS the answer that will tell you more you could ever imagine if you're willing to learn about it. There is a big learning curve. Go to Home Theater Shack website to learn about it. It's free, but needs to be downloaded on a lap top w/ mic attached.

                You must have a way to measure when using an active crossover if you want very good results. Read Nelson Pass' XVR-1 owners manual on set up if you want an idea of what you're getting into.

            • #13
              miniDSP 2x4 Digital Signal

              I bought this for starters. Its programmable for 6 to 48 db slope. This should get me dialed into the correct settings. After I know what I want I will have Tom Tutay of Transition Audio build the electronic crossover.
              PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI preamp,
              Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
              Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects.

              Comment

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