Berning! Quadrature Z and Pre - compared with Vitus and Einstein. Audio Machina too

[bonzo75]

http://zero-distortion.org/berning-c...audio-machina/

[Hawk]

Interesting article. Nice to read about reasonably priced products that really perform(MicroZOTL pre/ ZOTL40 amp). Up the price point ladder, I have not heard the Berning QuadratureZ. I believe it is in the $30,000 range. In addition to the article posted, an audio person that I really respect has very good things to say about the QuadratureZ. Very fast for a tube amp, transparent with tight bass. The 211/845 mentioned briefly looks very interesting. 60 watt, Class A Mono's. At $70,000 plus for a pair of mono's, they are a little out of my pay grade. Would not turn down an opportunity to listen to all.

[Guest]

Kinda bounces around a bit, but an interesting article. The Quad Z is like a high-strung thoroughbred straining against the reins - it wants to run. Most transparent amp I've heard - mainlining straight from the groove it demands a top notch source well set up.

[Joe Pittman]

I enjoyed the article. It was fun reading about the Audio Machina speakers. Karl Schuemann's speakers have always been great.

I've heard a couple of pairs of the QuadratureZ's at Winston Ma's place and they were very good.


Winston Ma's system February 2011.

[Hawk]

Awesome system visually & I am sure musically! May he rest in peace.

[bonzo75]

Wow what a system. Joe, Tima, what is your experience with the midbass with these amps? On some speakers, did it sound thin?

[Joe Pittman]

When listening to equipment at Winston's place it was difficult to determine performance. It was not the "real" world. Quite frankly, an AM radio would sound good in his million dollar room. When listening to the system as shown with the QuadratureZ's, you are not focused on the amp characteristics, but on how great the system sounds. And you are thinking that this is probably one of the best systems in the world.

[Guest]

Wow what a system. Joe, Tima, what is your experience with the midbass with these amps? On some speakers, did it sound thin?

I used them with 6-ohm Audio Physics Avanti Centuries. Its been a while but I don't recall midbass or midrange issues; now that I think about it I was somewhat impressed with the strength of the bass, though the Avantis were not a bass speaker. It was the 'rawest' sound I've heard from any amp - raw in the sense of unfiltered. It was startling.

[Hawk]

Sounds like careful matching of components in system & cabling would be required with QuadratureZ. I would classify the non-SET Lamm's as very natural,slightly dark and nicely open on top(Very good bass control). I really like the Lamm sound. It sounds like QuadratureZ would be faster, more transparent and revealing. Am I close?

[Guest]

Hawk commented 02-17-2017, 04:10 PM

Sounds like careful matching of components in system & cabling would be required with QuadratureZ. I would classify the non-SET Lamm's as very natural,slightly dark and nicely open on top(Very good bass control). I really like the Lamm sound. It sounds like QuadratureZ would be faster, more transparent and revealing. Am I close?

With regard to component matching, I don't have enough experience - just a week - with the QuadratureZ to speak on that. Wrt non-SET Lamms, I'll fall back on my TAB review of the M1.2s rather than repeat here. Yes, I like the honest Lamm sound ... a lot. I agree the QuadratureZ sounds faster. Funny, that's the word that falls readily to hand, but if asked to explain further beyond synonyms, I'm hesitant to account for how or why, other than speaking to a certain transient crispness - but there's more to it than that.. I know there is some debate on whether Berning designs are 'true' OTLs; regardless, their transparency is, imo, fundamental to their character - unfiltered as I said above as an OTL is unfiltered by output capacitors. I'd love to have a pair.

[Hawk]

Thanks for reply. I did not realize that you did reviews for Audio Beat. Really nice review of the M1.2 Reference. Congrats! Not blowing smoke, Audio Beat is easily one of my favorite online audio publications. My comments on the Lamm sound were from my own ML1.1(90 watt Push Pull). Really nice amp that has been replaced by the M1.2 Reference that you own.

The QuadratureZ sounds very interesting. A little background. I bought my current speakers from Bruce Jacobs(Quality audio & person in general). In the past, he was a rep for Eficion and I bought his personal pair of F300's. They are kind of a Watt/Puppy configuration and the cabinets were customized & feature 24 Stillpoints (20 Stillpoints are inset & customized in the cabinets & supported by 4 on the floor). A number of years ago, he demonstrated these speakers with the QuadratureZ's. He had very nice things to say about these amps. When I purchased the speakers, my existing tube amps had difficulty controlling the bass. Being EL34 based, they had a midrange to die for; however, the bass had way to much bloom(12 inch Carbon Fiber Woofer, large voice coil, etc) The Lamm ML1.1 that I purchased worked really well. They sound great top to bottom, In particular,the bass is tight, controlled and really hits you in the chest. My only complaint with the Lamm ML1.1 is that I could use a little more power. The QuadratureZ's definitely have more power. I would also be interested in your thoughts on a comparison of the ML1.1 and your M1,2 reference. Probably another thread and another time. Of note, I use Stillpoints on my Lamm. Shunyata Sigma HC's are awesome on the Lamm's. Not so awesome on your pocketbook.

[Guest]

Thanks for reply. I did not realize that you did reviews for Audio Beat. Really nice review of the M1.2 Reference. Congrats! Not blowing smoke, Audio Beat is easily one of my favorite online audio publications. My comments on the Lamm sound were from my own ML1.1(90 watt Push Pull). Really nice amp that has been replaced by the M1.2 Reference that you own.

The QuadratureZ sounds very interesting. A little background. I bought my current speakers from Bruce Jacobs(Quality audio & person in general). In the past, he was a rep for Eficion and I bought his personal pair of F300's. They are kind of a Watt/Puppy configuration and the cabinets were customized & feature 24 Stillpoints (20 Stillpoints are inset & customized in the cabinets & supported by 4 on the floor). A number of years ago, he demonstrated these speakers with the QuadratureZ's. He had very nice things to say about these amps. When I purchased the speakers, my existing tube amps had difficulty controlling the bass. Being EL34 based, they had a midrange to die for; however, the bass had way to much bloom(12 inch Carbon Fiber Woofer, large voice coil, etc) The Lamm ML1.1 that I purchased worked really well. They sound great top to bottom, In particular,the bass is tight, controlled and really hits you in the chest. My only complaint with the Lamm ML1.1 is that I could use a little more power. The QuadratureZ's definitely have more power. I would also be interested in your thoughts on a comparison of the ML1.1 and your M1,2 reference. Probably another thread and another time. Of note, I use Stillpoints on my Lamm. Shunyata Sigma HC's are awesome on the Lamm's. Not so awesome on your pocketbook.

Never had a chance to hear the Lamm ML1.1. I thought the ML2 (and then 2.1 and 2.2) were upgrades from the ML 1.1, but I'm not a guru on Lamm history and could be mistaken. Marc Mickelson did a nice review of the ML1.1 when he was at Soundstage. He's covered most every Lamm amp and many of the preamps. The QuadratureZ sound is quite different from the Lamm sound. The Q's sound is more similar to Atma-Sphere amps than not.

I spent a lot of time (and money) at Bruce's store, Salon One. Great guy, wish he still had the store; he's with Stillpoints now. Feel free to PM if you rather.

[Hawk]

Thanks for reply. I grew up in Duluth(No laughing!) I was traveling for work and stopped into Bruce's Store(Salon 1 Audio) in Wisconsin Rapids. At the time(early 1980's), Salon 1 was based out of his house. Bruce was really patient & got me much more involved in this hobby. Before meeting Bruce, I had all Carver Equipment(M1.5t amp, etc) and Polk RTR12's. I still have the Linn LP12 that I owned at the time(With a few upgrades & almost 40 years of use on LP12-nice value) I ended up purchasing a CJ PV5 and a Grado TLZ cartridge from Bruce and my journey into the audio abyss began. After 35 years, he still picks up the phone when I call.(My kid doesn't. I have to text her)

As far as the Lamm Amps, the ML2.1 & ML2.2 are SET's. Really nice; but only 18 Watts. The ML1.1(90 watt push-pull) looks like these SET's, however they perform more like the M1.2 & M2.2. I had the on/off switch go out on one. Talked to Vladimir. Nice guy. I am sure he has forgotten more about audio then I know. He said that he quit making the ML1.1 because he felt like he was competing with himself with the M1.2 in particular. Lamm has really good customer service. I wish they were a little closer to my neighborhood in Minneapolis.