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  • Vinyl bleed through

    I just rec a sealed new supposed to be count Basie album.
    it looks clean no scuffs hoping it’s new. As I play it I hear a faint echo in the right Channel of a vocal it’s the vocal that is said in stereo a second or two later. Now as I’m not a vinyl master by any means , but is this possible or even typical. Over all it’s Amazing sound better then my other album. Am I nuts 😩
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    I've read somewhere that this is sometimes due to tape bleed-through, due to the layer below that layer passing over the head during transfer to the acetate having "magnetized" the layer above (or vice-versa). I experience this on a few albums I have.

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's something from a Shure site -
      "Question:

      When playing a record, I hear a faint audio signal before the song starts? Is there something wrong with the stylus or cartridge? Answer:

      The stylus is not defective; the cartridge is not defective. They are working properly.
      On a vinyl record, the groove has ridges cut deep into the vinyl wall. The other side of the vinyl wall will have faint impressions of these deep cuts. During a silent passage, or before a song starts, these faint impressions are picked up by the stylus. This is especially noticeable if the following groove contains loud sounds.
      This is known as pre-echo, i.e., the song is heard before it starts. When a heavier vinyl is used for the record, pre-echo is reduced."

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes it’s how I think it is. There is good and bad in this.
        Good it’s TAPE !! bad it’s there lol. It was just the first and second song. I still fell vinyl is off the chain just keeps you there. How a nail dragging on a plastic disk sounds this good is good puzzling me big time.
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • seamonster
          seamonster commented
          Editing a comment
          "How a nail dragging on a plastic disk sounds this good is good puzzling me big time."

          It's why I find playing records more interesting than playing CDs, or even tape, if I had tape.

      • #5
        Originally posted by seamonster View Post
        Here's something from a Shure site -
        "Question:

        When playing a record, I hear a faint audio signal before the song starts? Is there something wrong with the stylus or cartridge? Answer:

        The stylus is not defective; the cartridge is not defective. They are working properly.
        On a vinyl record, the groove has ridges cut deep into the vinyl wall. The other side of the vinyl wall will have faint impressions of these deep cuts. During a silent passage, or before a song starts, these faint impressions are picked up by the stylus. This is especially noticeable if the following groove contains loud sounds.
        This is known as pre-echo, i.e., the song is heard before it starts. When a heavier vinyl is used for the record, pre-echo is reduced."
        Holy crap this is spooky good thing I’m drinking yet
        ty
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • #6
          pre-echo exists on D2D records where no tape in involved.
          Linn Kilmax LP12 | Channel D | Jadis | Denafrips | Innuos | Klipsch Cornwall IV | Falcon LS3/5a | McCollum ESL 57

          Comment


          • #7
            It seems so this is very interesting stuff
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
              It seems so this is very interesting stuff
              I find this vinyl renaissance very interesting. These issues were discussed when I got into vinyl in the 70's. We have come full circle.

              Comment


              • #9
                'Print-through' is commonly associated with tape, and as Joe just pointed out, something that has been discussed since the 70s (and before).

                I've yet to experience it when mastering LPs that have a digital source file. So I'm inclined to think its entirely a tape thing and not an LP thing.

                Comment


                • Rob
                  Rob commented
                  Editing a comment
                  it can also be a disc cutting thing.

              • #10
                It’s spooky I’ll say that and it makes it worse as I listen loud
                analog stuff.
                otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                Dacs lampi various

                Comment


                • #11
                  there can be a disc only condition termed "pre echo" where a silent groove is follpwed by a highly modulated groove whice physically modulates the silent groove slightly causing the pre echo condition.
                  Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Shelter 501 Mark II Cart (St) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (St) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (St) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (M) , Luxman Tonearm (M) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (M) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-300 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    On my album it’s a second or two behind the actual loud vocal.
                    analog stuff.
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                    Dacs lampi various

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Print-through of a master tape stored tails out.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Myles had told me about this tape but did not give a thought on vinyl. I assume this means it’s an analog lp ?
                        analog stuff.
                        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                        Dacs lampi various

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Alrainbow View Post
                          Myles had told me about this tape but did not give a thought on vinyl. I assume this means it’s an analog lp ?
                          For sure. I have several albums in both tape and vinyl and you can clearly hear the print through / pre echo on both formats.

                          Comment

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