Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Todays Wire Quality

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Todays Wire Quality

    Take a look at this picture. This is an example of wire I see on the market today. I don't know if this is oxidation after production or part of the fast drawn wire process utilized today. Or just just low purity copper. Whatever the reason, its black, not copper colored.

    Call me sensitive, but I pay attention to this when I wire an audio system. Personally I dont even want to put any sort of off the shelf NMB to a nice stereo. This is the reason. I always push for quality conductors from the panel to the rack.

    Next time your patting yourself on the back for buying a $600 to $2000 power cable, consider the 40 feet of whatever in your wall. Then there is everything else I pay attention to that few other electricians cares about. There is code and there is code done right for the installation. This wire is code. Its not the right wire to feed a stereo. Click image for larger version

Name:	20200218_112247.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	2.44 MB
ID:	131923
    PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp,
    Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
    Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects. ADDPower Symphony and Electraclear.

  • #2
    Where is the hot wire in your picture? It looks like I see copper sticking out of the end of the neutral wire. Are you sure that's not insulation covering the neutral wire in your picture?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

    Comment


    • #3
      I was thinking a lacquer.
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Magico S5 Mk.2 speakers with SPod feet
      -cj 40th Anniversary ART300 monoblock amplifiers
      -cj GAT preamplifier Series 2 preamplifier
      -Doshi V3.0 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL, Fuuga, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 5, Allnic cables, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, MG Audio, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA platforms.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm running into a lot of NMB where one of the insulated conductors is covered in a tarnish for most all the 250 role. I just happened to pull that white conductor out for a photo. I was trimming outlets in a kitchen. The ground looked fine and is in the photo for contrast. The white is horrible.

        fwiw I never shove my wires into the back of a receptacle with a wago style grip. I am concerned a wire such as this may not make good enough contact over time and the connection will fail. I am convinced the NEC required AFCI breakers because of this problem. I always wrap the wire around the screw. If the receptacle is a high quality one with a screw and clamp, i will run a strait strip behind the clamp and tighten it down. Never push into one of those self griping holes.

        Another though, any wire will do this over time exposed to air. I always deox my marine and audio connections. Some may say deox may change the sound. Deox will slow oxidation. Oxidation will also change the sound and ability to pass current which equals heat.
        PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp,
        Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
        Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects. ADDPower Symphony and Electraclear.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kingrex View Post
          Take a look at this picture. This is an example of wire I see on the market today. I don't know if this is oxidation after production or part of the fast drawn wire process utilized today. Or just just low purity copper. Whatever the reason, its black, not copper colored.

          Call me sensitive, but I pay attention to this when I wire an audio system. Personally I dont even want to put any sort of off the shelf NMB to a nice stereo. This is the reason. I always push for quality conductors from the panel to the rack.

          Next time your patting yourself on the back for buying a $600 to $2000 power cable, consider the 40 feet of whatever in your wall. Then there is everything else I pay attention to that few other electricians cares about. There is code and there is code done right for the installation. This wire is code. Its not the right wire to feed a stereo. Click image for larger version

Name:	20200218_112247.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	2.44 MB
ID:	131923
          Wow Rex, that is crazy. I don’t know where this wire comes from, but I gotta guess there is impurities allowing this to occur.

          I had relatively new copper 90 degree elbows that somehow failed allowing pin hole leaks, months apart. I believe this same copper probably came from the same place as the wire in your picture.
          Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
          Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
          Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
          Speakers: Wilson Alexias
          Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45’s
          Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 Amp Breakers on grounded sub panel to Furutech GTX D NSF receptacle packages | Surge Guard at Main Panel | Keces P3 & P8 | ADD POWR series
          Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Gläss

          Comment


          • #6
            I ran into another spot today. I rubbed on it for a while. It seems to be a mix of tarnish and something deeper. It looks very similar to overheated wire I see in K&T. I wonder if the drawing is not to fast and hot. Some does seem to rub off and shine up, but never fully. A dark glaze is deeper than the edge of my screwdriver scraping the surface clean. Its Home Depot wire.
            PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp,
            Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
            Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects. ADDPower Symphony and Electraclear.

            Comment


            • #7
              I’m guessing but it’s the same shiny copper wire shown on the ground. I feel the coating of the plastic insulation it’s dipped it. It does look like heated copper but I doubt it. Hard drawn wire is brite Copper. I’ll bet if you scrape the surface it’s brite under it.
              lastly did you measure it by touching a lead from a voltage tester to other conductor. Does it conduct with out scraping the surface.
              lastly all cold connections in electrical is based on pressure to surface contact. as we rap the wire around a screw terminal it makes a large contact area much better than the push in you Commented on. I don’t know how the approval labs let it go. They fail all the time if used in a high current location. Space heaters kill them. The holes are gauge to use only 14 gauge. So it limits it to 15 amps. Google the pic detail and I’ll bet ecm or mike holts Forums has some comments.
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #8
                I have put a lot put a lot of commercial lights in using 12 awg WAGO. I am amazed I don't hear of more call back because of them. What's worse than a WAGO is an idiot putting 8 or 10 or more wires under a big blue wire nut. Gee boss, they fit!!!!!!!

                A bit off topic but related, in houses I see 2 area where fires are dam close to starting.

                1st is in a light switch where the14 awg wire was shoved in the back of the hole in the switch. Someone lives with the flickering light for months. When I get there the switch and plastic box are melted.

                2nd is the old enclosed ceiling light with 1 or 2 compact fluorescent bulbs in them. I don't know if its the driver getting hot or a harmonic from those bulbs, but I have found more wire with the insulation completely burned away all the way out of the box with brittle copper more times than I care to imagine.

                The 3rd is anywhere a person did not properly tighten a connection point. But that is just sloppy work, not inherent to the product faults.

                I'm done trimming that job till painters are done. I don't know if I will have any more of that wire in hand to really inspect it thoroughly. It was all in the 12 awg. I was using Cooper Building wire. Its a well know brand name installed everywhere.



                PAP Trio 10/Voxativ & PAP Trio 15 Horn speakers, Ampsandsound Casablanca monoblocks, First Sound Audio Mark 3SI Paramount preamp,
                Mojo Audio Deja Vu server, Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC, The Linear Solution Ethernet Switch, Blue Jeans Ethernet cablling,
                Akiko Corelli, Custom power strip direct wired to panel with OFC copper wire. Inakustik Ref Air 2404 Speaker cable. Genesis and Inakustik NF2404 Air Interconnects. ADDPower Symphony and Electraclear.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is it the reaction of the insulator to the copper? does the black wire exhibit the same issue?

                  Front end: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 Power Supplies and Volume controls
                  Brinkmann La Grange & RonT Tube Power supply with Kuzma 4-point ,FR64S, Brinkmann 12.1 , .Koetsu Jade Platinum,Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum, Lyra Atlas, Lyra Etna SL Goldfinger Statement, KLAUDIO RCM, HRSM3X
                  Amps: Wyetech Topaz, Futterman H3 Quad II,Citation II, Marantz 8b, 5 ,2
                  Pre-Amps:Marantz 7, Marantz Model 1 Consolette Pair
                  Speakers: Quad ESL 57, Beveridge Model 3 DD amps, REL S/2 x 2
                  Otari 5050BXII, DeHavilland 222

                  Comment


                  • Kingrex
                    Kingrex commented
                    Editing a comment
                    No
                Working...
                X