Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do Reviews with Ratings Help?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Do Reviews with Ratings Help?

    Do you like or is it useful when a reviewer sums up an equipment review using a rating system employing a numerical value, certain number of stars, percentage improvement, etc.? Or gives the DUT five stars for tonality, 10 for soundstaging, etc.
    Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
    Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
    ________________________________________

    -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
    -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
    -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
    -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
    -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
    -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
    -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
    -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
    -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
    -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

  • #2
    What is a DUT?
    Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

    Comment


    • #3
      Stars, numbers, or percentages Just provide me the a truthful and unbiased closing summary on the product without "fluff" . Be sure to outline the pro’s and con’s there. Summaries also help to gel together longer reviews into concise opinions.
      Chris
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      Kef 201/2, Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE, Manley Chinook, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV20x2L, ExaSound e32, Acoustic Zen cables. (Office): Vincent SP331 Mkll, Quicksilver Pre, Lumin D1, (Ken Lau Signiture Edition PSU), Bryston BCD-1, Vapor Audio Breeze, WooAudio W6se,Questyle Audio CMA800R LCD-3,HD800s, HD600, Mr Speaker Ether C Flow,

      Comment


      • #4
        They can help, but I really like comparisons to other equipment.
        SOURCE: VINYL - EAT C-Sharp with, EAT LPS power supply, My Sonic Lab Signature Gold
        DIGITAL - Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC. Roon Nucleus w/EAT Lps power supply. Auralic Aires G1
        PHONOSTAGE: AudioNet PAM G2 with AudioNet EPX power supply.
        PREAMP: Audionet PRE G2.
        AMPLIFIER: Audionet MAX monoblocks.
        SPEAKERS: YG Acoustics Anat III Signatures (upgraded to Sonja 1.2) JL Audio F112 V2 (x2)
        CABLES: Kubala-Sosna, Kubala Sosna Xpander.....Audio Desk Systeme RCM, Adona Rack, GIK & Acoustimac room treatment, Isoacoustics

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tom_hankins View Post
          They can help, but I really like comparisons to other equipment.
          I'm the opposite. Comparing to other gear is too subjective an exercise that carries no weight for me. I do like a comparison to the previous model however.
          Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

          Comment


          • #6
            Numerical values might help but I find the absence of detailed disclosure of wires used, racks and mechanical isolation used or not, and specifically what electronics used to be a hurdle in reviews. Yes, I know that a laundry list of associated equipment is often at the end of a review but I have rarely read if all the equipment available to the reviewer was tried or if only some was used and if in fact some of that equipment was used with the reviewed component.
            TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter mat & weight; PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

            Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

            VTL 6.5 preamp Series II
            Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

            Piega C711 Loudspeakers

            Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

            Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator, Synergistic Research 12 UEF SE Line Conditioner, Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cords, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates, Synergistic Research Orange Outlet, Furutech NCF Booster Braces, Audio Art Ref IC, MIT Oracle IC, synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria Level 3 Balanced ICs, Synergistic Research Euphoria Level 3 Speaker Cables, Synergistic Research Cable Risers.

            Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD800s Headphones.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post
              What is a DUT?
              DUT is short for "Device Under Test".

              Personally for analog source components like cartridges/turntables/phono stages I find nothing helps more then a sound sample. One each from the "reference setup" and then with the new component in place. I really really like it when Fremer does group reviews with sound clips and I find them extremely extremely useful.

              Sure the clips are far from the final word and you lose a bit during the A/D and then D/A process but the essence definitely remains. If the review says "great transient attack", "great tonality" etc... I should still be able to get that from a sound clip.


              Kronos Pro/SCPS + Zyx Omega Premium -> Trulife Argo -> Schiit Ragnarok -> Event Opal Monitors

              Comment


              • Johnny Vinyl
                Johnny Vinyl commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for the decyphering.

            • #8
              With the latest MQA debacle, I'm not sure I can trust any reviews any more when they can conflict so strongly.
              Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mono) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post
                Do you like or is it useful when a reviewer sums up an equipment review using a rating system employing a numerical value, certain number of stars, percentage improvement, etc.? Or gives the DUT five stars for tonality, 10 for soundstaging, etc.
                breaking it down like Steve Rochlin's reviews? I rather see a composite score taking into consideration all aspects because the reader is less likely to misinterpret the reviewer's intent, that's what descriptive writing is for. Jerry Seigel ranks components under review from 1 to 10 LPs. IMO, that system has some validity because a 5 LP score doesn't mean its necessarily bad, it's based on the reviewer's biases and system synergy. it leaves room for the reader to decide whether or not it merits further investigation.

                I dislike Stereophile's 'Class system' the most (e.g. A, B, C) its confusing for the short timer that's building a system based on these rankings, its pure rubbish.
                TURNTABLE TechDAS Airforce III | TONEARMS Graham Phantom III + Ikeda IT-345 CR-1 | CARTRIDGES ZYX Omega X SB2 + Ikeda 9TP + Koetsu Black Goldline Mono + Decca London Jubilee | PHONO STAGE Boulder 1008 | DIGITAL Innuos MiniZen II + M2Tech Young + Palmer PS | LINE STAGE Boulder 810 | AMPLIFIERS Boulder 850 Monos | SPEAKERS Magico A5 | RACK Adona Eris 6DW | CABLES Mogami + Canare

                Comment


                • #10
                  I find ratings such as those in Stereophile's Class System or Absolute Sound's Recommended Components to be virtually useless as so many different products are often listed in the same general class. It also provides no information on component compatability or even what power cords or interconnects work well. A well written review if read careully is much more useful, at least if it is honest. Assembling a system is an art not an exercise in picking components from a class A listing.
                  Rockport Sirius turntable, Lyra Atlas SL cartridge, Audio Note M9 SE Phono stage, Audio Note M10 (Signature) linestage, EMM Labs TX2/DA2 digital, Audio Note Balanced Kegon amps, EMM Labs MTRX amps, Acapella Triolons, Jorma Prime and Odin 2 cables, Stage 3 Kraken power cords, HB Marble Powerslave, Finite Elemente Pagode Reference stands and Cerabases, Halcyonics active isolation bases, HRS Equipment stand, Stillpoints Ultra 6 footers, Furitech cable isolators and plugs, Loricraft and Audiodesk vinyl cleaners, Yamaha CT7000 Tuner.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I'm going to say 'no' to this one.

                    Way back in the 1970s Kawasaki came out with a line of 3 cylinder 2-stroke motorbikes. They got excellent reviews and rated highly.

                    In time, it was sorted out that the 750cc version was a bit overpowered for the frame. If you accelerated through a turn you were OK but if you let off on the throttle, the frame would unflex from where the motor had wound it up and you would wind up in the ditch. The bike was soon notorious.

                    Ratings loose their value over time due to a variety of issues. if you give something a '9' because something else is better, that plus item had better well hold its value! That does not always happen, even though gear that holds a lessor rating continues to rate on the used market. We can all think of examples. Just my opinion here but I think a numeric rating will get dated while a simple expression of what is good about a piece will not.

                    Comment


                    • Steve Lefkowicz
                      Steve Lefkowicz commented
                      Editing a comment
                      A friend in college had the 500CC triple from this line (the H1 or H3, I forget). Fast as all get out, but a death trap otherwise. I much preferred the Norton Combat 750 twin I had at the time.
                      Neither bike was terribly reliable.

                    • Rust
                      Rust commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I had an H2 Mk IV when I was a kid and it was the E-ticket ride (for those of you who know what an E-ticket is). And it wasn't quite as bad as some pundits suggested. Well, at least until I stuck a set of expansion chambers on it and finally got the jetting right. Then it was purely evil wicked fun..

                  • #12
                    They are only relative to that particular reviewer's past reviews. We used to have stars (quality) and checks (value) at Listener. I remember reviewing the Rega P3 and gave it a certain number of checks and stars. It started a long internet discussion, because Herb Reichert (one of my two favorite audio writers, along with Artie) had reviewed a different more expensive table and gave it a half a star lower rating. You'd think we had just told people their kids were ugly. That star discrepancy totally invalidated all of our reviews to some people.

                    Then again, I only look at reviews as a personal tale of how a product worked in my system. I don't expect anyone else to know or like the music I play or like (why I don't often mention specific tracks in my reviews) and I don't particularly care for what goes on inside the box (I spend all day at work dealing with complex technology). That to me is the designers choice and I just want to see what the results are.

                    The famous naval architect Bob Perry (quite the audiophile too) used to review sailboats for Sail magazine. but he reviewed the engineering and design, on paper, never actually sailing them. Great articles that gave great insight to what yacht design was all about. However, they never gave an indication of how they sailed or what it was like to be on the water in one. I also subscribed to Practical Sailor, a great monthly newsletter that reviewed sailboats strictly on the water in terms of how they worked. Totally the opposite of Perry's articles. It was really nice getting both viewpoints.

                    I consider myself more of the Practical Sailor type than the Bob Perry type, though it is nice to have both articles to read.

                    Odd points, before I knew Perry was an audiophile and occasional letter writer to Positive Feedback (in the old paper days) he was who my wife and I had decided would design our first custom sailboat if we ever could afford one. Practical Sailor was owned by the same company that bought Listener.
                    Steve Lefkowicz
                    Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
                    -
                    Analog 1: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 10X5 MK.II Low, iPhono2/iPowerX; Analog 2: Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Talisman S, iFi iPhono.
                    Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 28, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz Studio), iFi NEO iDSD, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2, Audioquest Jitterbug.
                    Electronics: DIY passive line-stage, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso
                    Speakers: Tekton Perfect SET 15, Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7
                    Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Audioquest Evergreen
                    Speaker cables: WyWyres Diamond, Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet, Audioquest Type 5
                    Digital cables: Aural Symphonics USB, iFi Gemini twin-head USB.
                    Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan rack, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
                    Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 600 ohm, DT770 Studio 80 ohm, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More Triple Driver IEM

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post
                      What is a DUT?
                      Device Under Test.
                      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                      ________________________________________

                      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                      -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Rob View Post

                        breaking it down like Steve Rochlin's reviews? I rather see a composite score taking into consideration all aspects because the reader is less likely to misinterpret the reviewer's intent, that's what descriptive writing is for. Jerry Seigel ranks components under review from 1 to 10 LPs. IMO, that system has some validity because a 5 LP score doesn't mean its necessarily bad, it's based on the reviewer's biases and system synergy. it leaves room for the reader to decide whether or not it merits further investigation.

                        I dislike Stereophile's 'Class system' the most (e.g. A, B, C) its confusing for the short timer that's building a system based on these rankings, its pure rubbish.
                        Or like Martin Colloms does.

                        Does anyone remember (know MEP does) when Dave Wilson used to draw diagrams?
                        Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                        Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                        ________________________________________

                        -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                        -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                        -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                        -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                        -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                        -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                        -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                        -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                        -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                        -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          A few comments from the cheap seats.

                          I rather like what some of the British publications do, review five or six similar components in around the same price range. For instance, integrated amplifiers. All tested with the same source, wires and speakers. Pretty much as the typical consumer would use it.

                          Note that typically such reviews are of relatively affordable gear. You know, stuff I could actually buy myself.

                          Such reviews wouldn't work for more expensive gear for a variety of reasons. At a certain level gear becomes so idiosyncratic that system matching is a must. At that point the review becomes less about the actual DUT and more about system tuning/matching to determine ultimate performance of the system as a whole.

                          I think both styles of reviewing are relevant albeit for different audiences and price points.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X