System warmth....

[Johnny Vinyl]

....and where should it come from?

This was a question posed on another board and I thought it quite interesting. Responses were all over the place and thereby no real consensus was achieved, nor did I think it would be.

These were the options:

1. Source
2. Amplification
3. Speakers
4. Media (mastering) - not sure that should have been included as an option.
5. All of the above
6. None of the above

I personally don't think it comes down to just one option as I feel it's more of a synergy thing between components. I did however select my Marantz Ref Pearl for it's slightly warm of neutral sound signature. I also prefer MM/MI cartridges for their less than forward sound. My G7.1f speakers have treble/bass tone controls that are tuned on the warmer side. Based on this I probably would have voted #5.

What are your thoughts on this?

[JCOConnell]

I prefer neutral tonality in a system over warmth.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I prefer neutral tonality in a system over warmth.

I can appreciate your preference, but that wasn't the question.

[JCOConnell]

I can appreciate your preference, but that wasn't the question.

If you mean warm, when its supposed to be warm, from the source.

[Analog21]

Ideally, I think it all starts with the mastering. If you want to accentuate warmth, then components can add their "color" to the sonics. For example, my system already lends to the warm side of neutral. EL34 amplifier tubes, Sonus Faber Olympica Speakers with soft dome tweeters, I had a Ortofon Quintet Black cartridge, and Zesto Andros phono stage, EAR tube digital end, etc. I own 2 pressings of the same record: Harry Connick Jr "We Are In Love" from the early 1990s. One was mastered and pressed in the United States and the other in the Netherlands (Holland Pressing). They are drastically different in their presentation. The US is dead neutral (sterile in my opinion), and the Holland Pressing has the sweetest sounding midrange I've heard out of a Connick record. Everything is just better on the album and is definitely a "warmer" sounding presentation. My components could not fix a sterile mastering pressing, though it could make things a little more pleasing to my tonal preferences. But when the media mastering is "warm" and that's what you prefer, it is pure bliss.

[cpp]

I feel it starts at the beginning and along the way the tonality is changed or enhanced by your choice of amps and speakers and other supporting devices. A master performed digitally can have its sound characteristics changed with mixing. No doubt Bruce B could be a lot more precise.

[Rob]

'warmth' comes from a combination of many things, after having owned lots of gear in several different habitats IMHO, speakers have the greatest impact on over-all system warmth.

[Analog21]

I do also agree with Rob - Speakers are important. When I demoed my Sonus Fabers, it was hooked up to a Primaluna Integrated Amp with EL34s. Then we switched out the Fabers and put in Focal Electra BE speakers. What was once warmer became brighter to my ears. But I also think there is a misconception with "warmth". Not sure we all mean the same thing. Some people may just want rounded off top end, some people may just want more body in the midrange rather than being leaner, and then there is a "coloring" of the sonic signature that is defined as warmth. This is one of those overused terms in my opinion with no concrete definition of what we are talking about. When I think of warmth, it can easily be heard by swopping out tubes in an Amp or other component. Pop in Mullards or maybe an Amperex 7308 (especially a Holland Amperex) and you'll hear warmth. Pop in a Siemens or maybe a Telefunken and you'll hear neutral and leaner presentation.

[JCOConnell]

I define warmth as a slight EQ tilt where you have too much lower midrange/ upper midbass, and not enough upper midrange/ lower treble

[Analog21]

Yes - I wouldn't define it that way (though it doesn't mean you are wrong at all). Just goes to show you how wide of an opinion there is on terminology. Interesting take on your definition.

[Garth]

I found most of the warmth came from tubes and I am not talking about the sound

[allenh]

I have a fairly neutral system, probably just a touch on the warmer side of absolute neutral (say like the Magico Q's). Given that, I like my warmth to come from my media. I love AP and Water Lily mastered pressings. Amazing 'natural' warmth to my ears.

[Bill Hart]

I'd like to say my system is like a Thermos, to the extent that if you put something warm in it, it's warm, and if you put something cold in it, it's cold. But, given that I have tubes in the phono stage, the line stage and the amps (except for woofer amps), very little sounds cold. A badly recorded record can sound thin, flat or lacking in life. When it is all running the way I like it, it's neither overtly "warm" nor analytical- it's just "there" with body and texture along with clarity and an "in the room" quality that does not sound processed--but also changes "tone" with what is going on with the material and individual instruments. I think that means it is not imparting noticeable colorations, or perhaps I just like how it all comes together-- whether it is the combination of the various tube components coupled with horns that achieve this, or the cartridge, which is known for a rich sound, is hard to say, so apart from the media (only vinyl), I'd say the system in its entirety.

[1morerecord2clean]

I'd like to say my system is like a Thermos, to the extent that if you put something warm in it, it's warm, and if you put something cold in it, it's cold. But, given that I have tubes in the phono stage, the line stage and the amps (except for woofer amps), very little sounds cold. A badly recorded record can sound thin, flat or lacking in life. When it is all running the way I like it, it's neither overtly "warm" nor analytical- it's just "there" with body and texture along with clarity and an "in the room" quality that does not sound processed--but also changes "tone" with what is going on with the material and individual instruments. I think that means it is not imparting noticeable colorations, or perhaps I just like how it all comes together-- whether it is the combination of the various tube components coupled with horns that achieve this, or the cartridge, which is known for a rich sound, is hard to say, so apart from the media (only vinyl), I'd say the system in its entirety.

Bill, is that a glass lined, stainless lined, or a plastic thermos? Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Bill Hart]

Bill, is that a glass lined, stainless lined, or a plastic thermos? Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Thermos (is it still a brand?) always sort of fascinated me- the ones I remember were glass-lined with ugly shells, like plaid.
These days, I'm more interested in the mind-control rays-- and need to do some additional shielding- you know, giant Faraday cage, foil blankets and hoodies.
Ever watch Gotta Call Saul? I relate to the brother....

[atmasphere]

I define warmth as a slight EQ tilt where you have too much lower midrange/ upper midbass, and not enough upper midrange/ lower treble

The human ear converts distortion to tonality. 'Warmth' is an audiophile term that usually refers to the presence of lower ordered harmonics (2nd-4th). I've not seen the term describe actual frequency response errors as in the post above (although since distortion does manifest as tonality, its likely that a lot of audiophiles think there is a frequency response error when there isn't). So I suspect getting the definitions right might be important to a useful discussion.

I prefer the 'warmth' to be an aspect of the recording if at all possible. I don't like it when the playback editorializes about the content, although if its going to do that I prefer warmth (lower ordered harmonics) to harshness (higher ordered harmonics, but in much lower quantities; often found in systems that are described as 'neutral').