Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

System warmth....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • System warmth....

    ....and where should it come from?

    This was a question posed on another board and I thought it quite interesting. Responses were all over the place and thereby no real consensus was achieved, nor did I think it would be.

    These were the options:

    1. Source
    2. Amplification
    3. Speakers
    4. Media (mastering) - not sure that should have been included as an option.
    5. All of the above
    6. None of the above

    I personally don't think it comes down to just one option as I feel it's more of a synergy thing between components. I did however select my Marantz Ref Pearl for it's slightly warm of neutral sound signature. I also prefer MM/MI cartridges for their less than forward sound. My G7.1f speakers have treble/bass tone controls that are tuned on the warmer side. Based on this I probably would have voted #5.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

  • #2
    I prefer neutral tonality in a system over warmth.
    Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
      I prefer neutral tonality in a system over warmth.
      I can appreciate your preference, but that wasn't the question.
      Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Johnny Vinyl View Post

        I can appreciate your preference, but that wasn't the question.
        If you mean warm, when its supposed to be warm, from the source.
        Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

        Comment


        • #5
          Ideally, I think it all starts with the mastering. If you want to accentuate warmth, then components can add their "color" to the sonics. For example, my system already lends to the warm side of neutral. EL34 amplifier tubes, Sonus Faber Olympica Speakers with soft dome tweeters, I had a Ortofon Quintet Black cartridge, and Zesto Andros phono stage, EAR tube digital end, etc. I own 2 pressings of the same record: Harry Connick Jr "We Are In Love" from the early 1990s. One was mastered and pressed in the United States and the other in the Netherlands (Holland Pressing). They are drastically different in their presentation. The US is dead neutral (sterile in my opinion), and the Holland Pressing has the sweetest sounding midrange I've heard out of a Connick record. Everything is just better on the album and is definitely a "warmer" sounding presentation. My components could not fix a sterile mastering pressing, though it could make things a little more pleasing to my tonal preferences. But when the media mastering is "warm" and that's what you prefer, it is pure bliss.

          Comment


          • #6
            I feel it starts at the beginning and along the way the tonality is changed or enhanced by your choice of amps and speakers and other supporting devices. A master performed digitally can have its sound characteristics changed with mixing. No doubt Bruce B could be a lot more precise.
            Chris
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            Kef 201/2, Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE, Manley Chinook, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV20x2L, ExaSound e32, Acoustic Zen cables. (Office): Vincent SP331 Mkll, Quicksilver Pre, Lumin D1, (Ken Lau Signiture Edition PSU), Bryston BCD-1, Vapor Audio Breeze, WooAudio W6se,Questyle Audio CMA800R LCD-3,HD800s, HD600, Mr Speaker Ether C Flow,

            Comment


            • #7
              'warmth' comes from a combination of many things, after having owned lots of gear in several different habitats IMHO, speakers have the greatest impact on over-all system warmth.
              TechDAS | Graham Eng | ZYX | B.M.C. | Boulder | Magico

              "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

              Comment


              • #8
                I do also agree with Rob - Speakers are important. When I demoed my Sonus Fabers, it was hooked up to a Primaluna Integrated Amp with EL34s. Then we switched out the Fabers and put in Focal Electra BE speakers. What was once warmer became brighter to my ears. But I also think there is a misconception with "warmth". Not sure we all mean the same thing. Some people may just want rounded off top end, some people may just want more body in the midrange rather than being leaner, and then there is a "coloring" of the sonic signature that is defined as warmth. This is one of those overused terms in my opinion with no concrete definition of what we are talking about. When I think of warmth, it can easily be heard by swopping out tubes in an Amp or other component. Pop in Mullards or maybe an Amperex 7308 (especially a Holland Amperex) and you'll hear warmth. Pop in a Siemens or maybe a Telefunken and you'll hear neutral and leaner presentation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I define warmth as a slight EQ tilt where you have too much lower midrange/ upper midbass, and not enough upper midrange/ lower treble
                  Magnepan 1.6 QR Loudspeakers, Amherst A-2000 MOSFET 150 WPC Amp, Conrad Johnson PV-10A Modded Tube Line & Phono Stage, Electrocompaniet MC II Class A Head Amp, Audio Technica AT-OC9XML Cart (Stereo) , Graham Engineering 2.2 Tonearm (Stereo) , VPI Aries-1 Turntable (Stereo) , VPI Clamp, Denon DL-102 Cart, (Mono) , Luxman Tonearm (Mono) , Kenwood KD-500 Turntable (Mpmp) , Michell Clamp, Marantz 20B Analog FM Tuner, Pioneer SACD, Onkyo DX-6800 CD Transport, DIY 24B/192K DAC, Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones, Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp, DIY Silver Interconnects

                  Comment


                  • Analog21
                    Analog21 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes - I wouldn't define it that way (though it doesn't mean you are wrong at all). Just goes to show you how wide of an opinion there is on terminology. Interesting take on your definition.

                • #10
                  I found most of the warmth came from tubes and I am not talking about the sound

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I have a fairly neutral system, probably just a touch on the warmer side of absolute neutral (say like the Magico Q's). Given that, I like my warmth to come from my media. I love AP and Water Lily mastered pressings. Amazing 'natural' warmth to my ears.
                    Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I'd like to say my system is like a Thermos, to the extent that if you put something warm in it, it's warm, and if you put something cold in it, it's cold. But, given that I have tubes in the phono stage, the line stage and the amps (except for woofer amps), very little sounds cold. A badly recorded record can sound thin, flat or lacking in life. When it is all running the way I like it, it's neither overtly "warm" nor analytical- it's just "there" with body and texture along with clarity and an "in the room" quality that does not sound processed--but also changes "tone" with what is going on with the material and individual instruments. I think that means it is not imparting noticeable colorations, or perhaps I just like how it all comes together-- whether it is the combination of the various tube components coupled with horns that achieve this, or the cartridge, which is known for a rich sound, is hard to say, so apart from the media (only vinyl), I'd say the system in its entirety.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Bill Hart View Post
                        I'd like to say my system is like a Thermos, to the extent that if you put something warm in it, it's warm, and if you put something cold in it, it's cold. But, given that I have tubes in the phono stage, the line stage and the amps (except for woofer amps), very little sounds cold. A badly recorded record can sound thin, flat or lacking in life. When it is all running the way I like it, it's neither overtly "warm" nor analytical- it's just "there" with body and texture along with clarity and an "in the room" quality that does not sound processed--but also changes "tone" with what is going on with the material and individual instruments. I think that means it is not imparting noticeable colorations, or perhaps I just like how it all comes together-- whether it is the combination of the various tube components coupled with horns that achieve this, or the cartridge, which is known for a rich sound, is hard to say, so apart from the media (only vinyl), I'd say the system in its entirety.
                        Bill, is that a glass lined, stainless lined, or a plastic thermos? Sorry. Couldn't resist.

                        TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter mat & weight; PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

                        Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

                        VTL 6.5 preamp Series II
                        Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

                        Piega C711 Loudspeakers

                        Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

                        Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator, Synergistic Research 12 UEF SE Line Conditioner, Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cords, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates, Synergistic Research Orange Outlet, Furutech NCF Booster Braces, Audio Art Ref IC, MIT Oracle IC, synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria Level 3 Balanced ICs, Synergistic Research Euphoria Level 3 Speaker Cables, Synergistic Research Cable Risers.

                        Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD800s Headphones.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by 1morerecord2clean View Post

                          Bill, is that a glass lined, stainless lined, or a plastic thermos? Sorry. Couldn't resist.
                          Thermos (is it still a brand?) always sort of fascinated me- the ones I remember were glass-lined with ugly shells, like plaid.
                          These days, I'm more interested in the mind-control rays-- and need to do some additional shielding- you know, giant Faraday cage, foil blankets and hoodies.
                          Ever watch Gotta Call Saul? I relate to the brother....

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by JCOConnell View Post
                            I define warmth as a slight EQ tilt where you have too much lower midrange/ upper midbass, and not enough upper midrange/ lower treble
                            The human ear converts distortion to tonality. 'Warmth' is an audiophile term that usually refers to the presence of lower ordered harmonics (2nd-4th). I've not seen the term describe actual frequency response errors as in the post above (although since distortion does manifest as tonality, its likely that a lot of audiophiles think there is a frequency response error when there isn't). So I suspect getting the definitions right might be important to a useful discussion.

                            I prefer the 'warmth' to be an aspect of the recording if at all possible. I don't like it when the playback editorializes about the content, although if its going to do that I prefer warmth (lower ordered harmonics) to harshness (higher ordered harmonics, but in much lower quantities; often found in systems that are described as 'neutral').

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X