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  • Gear Along the Front Wall?

    My rack is currently along the side wall, with the amp between the speakers. Was thinking about getting a low(ish) rack and putting the gear along the front wall as I am beginning to need some additional side wall space for other things. I think common thinking is to keep on the gear on the side when possible. What's the downside of gear along the front wall? Anyway to ameliorate those issues?


    thx
    Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

  • #2
    Yeah. Don't worry about it and be happy.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 table with flywheel, SME 3012R arm, SME 312S arm, Lyra Etna SL and Dynavector XV-1S cartridges, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 tape deck, Ampex 350 repros, Roon Nucleus Plus server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6 pre, ARC Ref 75 amp, JBL 4345 speakers, and Def Tech Ref subs.

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    • #3
      I've done it both ways and haven't really noticed any pernicious problems in either configuration. Right now my stuff is along the front wall with the ports of 20 Hz capable speakers aimed that way. Even at stupid loud levels haven't experienced any feedback issues, and quite often I like stupid loud.

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      • #4
        Thanks, great to hear. Think I will start to configure that way.
        Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

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        • #5
          I've not noticed any issues either, although my speakers are placed ahead of the gear so essentially there is nothing between them.
          Dynavector DV20x2L MC cartridge - Genesis G7.1f speakers - Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Int. Amp. - Oracle Audio Paris MkV turntable - Various Morrow & Valab/King cables

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          • #6
            Cable companies like it along the side wall be sure to get the cable that is a thousand dollars a inch

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Garth View Post
              Cable companies like it along the side wall be sure to get the cable that is a thousand dollars a inch
              That's true.

              Wasn't Charlie Hansen adamantly against placing racks between or behind the speakers claiming it affected imaging?

              I think it's a bit of trade-off. Certainly there's a point beyond which cable length has to affect the sound. Or conversely, the shorter the better up to a point. Balance that against having the turntable as far away from the speakers as possible.

              But I don't see how a low equipment rack should affect the sound. Plus, short cables are a lot cheaper as Garth mentioned.


              Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
              Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
              ________________________________________

              -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
              -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
              -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
              -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
              -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
              -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
              -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
              -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
              -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
              -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Garth View Post
                Cable companies like it along the side wall be sure to get the cable that is a thousand dollars a inch
                Originally posted by MylesBAstor View Post

                That's true.

                Wasn't Charlie Hansen adamantly against placing racks between or behind the speakers claiming it affected imaging?

                I think it's a bit of trade-off. Certainly there's a point beyond which cable length has to affect the sound. Or conversely, the shorter the better up to a point. Balance that against having the turntable as far away from the speakers as possible.

                But I don't see how a low equipment rack should affect the sound. Plus, short cables are a lot cheaper as Garth mentioned.

                Thanks guys. Another reason I want the rack up on the front wall as I think through my cable options.
                Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

                Comment


                • #9
                  In my country...
                  Well, in my system, it shouldn't much matter because the horns are very directional compared to a normal speaker in a box (dipoles with a figure 8 dispersion pattern, not so sure); the woofers get more omnidirectional, but that's not really going to affect "imaging" that much.
                  Part of it is also the equation of long interconnect/short speaker cable and vice-versa (unless everything is on the front wall, and I guess you can use shorter cable for everything). I can't remember why, when I set up this system with the Lamm amps, we went the long interconnect (XLR- but the Lamm amps aren't balanced), short speaker cables. I know there are different philosophies on that, but honestly can't remember what the rationale is behind each (if there really is one).
                  Part of the reason I have the front end in a different part of the room- it's not just a side wall, it's really like another room, but no demarcation or archway- think of an irregular cross, speakers and amps north, front end on the west tip of the cross bar--is space and layout.
                  The one thing I do find a bit distracting is looking at twinkly lights, read-outs, etc. But, I guess you tune that out.
                  The thing I wonder about in some systems is some large flat screen between speakers - which is highly reflective. I guess you can put a sock over it if the system is used for HT unless the screen is used to display selections from a digital server.

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                  • #10
                    Lord knows a guy like me should not be taken over a guy like Charles Hansen Jim Smith is also a side wall guy But in my room the only side wall is right in the first reflexion point that can not be good I just thought with dipole clxs front back the turn table is going to get blasted and at 770 lbs blast away. How long does a set of cables have to be to lessen the sound I do not know but a long set of cables will lighten the wallet if not the sound.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Garth View Post
                      Lord knows a guy like me should not be taken over a guy like Charles Hansen Jim Smith is also a side wall guy But in my room the only side wall is right in the first reflexion point that can not be good I just thought with dipole clxs front back the turn table is going to get blasted and at 770 lbs blast away. How long does a set of cables have to be to lessen the sound I do not know but a long set of cables will lighten the wallet if not the sound.
                      Not that I always agree with Charlie. Then there are some of us who have no choice. Of course having monoblock amplifiers can often solve the short speaker cable length situation.

                      As far as length goes: I've heard the whole spectrum of answers. For example, Ray Kimber argued that as short as possible is not always the best solution. Then you have MIT and Transparent where the minimum length sold is 8 feet. George Cardas often suggested to me to do the experiment of listening to a meter vs a long length of a manufacturer's cable to see whether there's any difference in sound. Of course, that was with single ended cables and balanced should address that issue.

                      Then as Bill brought up, there's the ages old question of whether a short IC and long speaker cable is better than a long IC and short speaker cable. To that I have no answer. But again, sometimes people have no options here either.
                      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                      ________________________________________

                      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                      -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                      Comment


                      • Garth
                        Garth commented
                        Editing a comment
                        starting a fight with Charlie over audio I would be bringing a knife to a gun fight. But I agree with you Myles most times the room layout makes the choice not the owner. The flat wire Odin guys were and may still be preaching 3.5 meter as the holy grail length.

                        I still think with the price of wire the first guy who makes components the plug together like Lego has a marketing edge. Transformers audio Company great name no wire just pure sound tubes for eyes .

                    • #12
                      Allen,
                      i think you should be fine with a low non-resonant rack along the front wall but as others have mentioned, keep the gear well behind the front face of your magicos. Jim Smith used to suggest that it was best to have all the source and preamp gear out of there but i think he has softened this stance more recently.

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                      • #13
                        Thanks, Chris. It's decided, I'm moving the rack to the front. Looking at low profile rack options now...
                        Kronos Sparta -> Trinity Phono -> Trinity Pre -> CH Precision A1 -> Magico S7s

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I have my gear between the speakers but the front of the rack is about 24" behind the front of the speakers. Lately though I've been experimenting with a couple of movable 4' x 2' absorbing panels between the speakers and the rack, with the panels still 10-20" behind the front of the speakers. Imaging changes quite dramatically depnding on just how those panels are located and oriented. I wwould think that a few pieces of gear between and well behind the speakers would have much less effect than these panels, but probably not none. OTOH, putting acoustic panels on the side wall where your gear is now would also probably change the imaging noticeably, and taking your gear away from the wall (leaving just the wall) would also probably change the sound.

                          Tascam BR-20
                          Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS
                          Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS
                          MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out)
                          Pass Labs INT60
                          Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s
                          REL S3 (Kimber Kable connection)
                          Daedalus/Wywires, Audioquest, Acoustic Zen, DH cables
                          Torus IS5
                          Stillpoints and IsoPods, Tube Traps, GIK

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                          • #15
                            Originally posted by rbbert View Post
                            I have my gear between the speakers but the front of the rack is about 24" behind the front of the speakers. Lately though I've been experimenting with a couple of movable 4' x 2' absorbing panels between the speakers and the rack, with the panels still 10-20" behind the front of the speakers. Imaging changes quite dramatically depnding on just how those panels are located and oriented. I wwould think that a few pieces of gear between and well behind the speakers would have much less effect than these panels, but probably not none. OTOH, putting acoustic panels on the side wall where your gear is now would also probably change the imaging noticeably, and taking your gear away from the wall (leaving just the wall) would also probably change the sound.
                            Interesting. Why absorption say over diffusion or reflection? Reason I ask is many years ago was playing with some 1/2 round ASC tube traps between my Maggies 3s and Art suggested playing with orientation of the 1/2 rounds eg. absorption vs reflective elements. I didn't end up using them because while improving imaging, dynamics suffered.
                            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
                            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
                            ________________________________________

                            -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
                            -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
                            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
                            -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
                            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
                            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
                            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
                            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
                            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
                            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

                            Comment

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