Building An Audio System

[MylesBAstor]

I was thinking about how speakers and front-end components--or even cables--are so much sexier to talk about than electronics.

So when what was/is your philosophy when you assembled/are assembling your dream system?

Call me old school, but I still believe in getting the front-end right and subscribe to the philosophy of crap in, crap out. I don't care how much money you spend on room Rx, it isn't going to fix crap (but one does have to start with a reasonable, say not a square room). All the system will do is sound like crap.

Then the next choice is speakers. I want to choose something that I am going to be happy with for a long time. In my experience, speakers are often much better than we realize and are another victim of the crap in, crap out syndrome (of course, careful room placement is rule number #1). So I would spend more then on the speaker and then build the electronics around the speaker. In fact, maximizing the electronics for the speaker; it might seem crazy to run a $20K amp on a 10K speaker (or any other price range for that matter) but when you have maxxed out your investment and are ready for the next jump.

Now I will add having a good dealer makes this journey less precarious. While you may spend more money up front, a good dealer will save you money on the back end and not making bad choices! Or ill considered choices. Then again, many audiophiles don't have a nearby dealer and we have to consider their situation.

[nc42acc]

Great thread Myles. From my experiences I say get the best speaker you can afford and go from this end as far as your budget. Electronics and turntables are so much better for less than when I started this hobby in the 80s. I went from KEF LS50 to Joseph Pulsars to the Von Schweikert VR5 and the changes were major dramatic. One example in electronics is I have a ARC LS27 and then a ARC REF5SE, the change wasn't as near as dramatic. Just my philosophy and YMMV.

[allenh]

I'm more of a speaker first type of guy. They are the most colored of components, so pick your poison slowly and carefully. Then find the amp that pairs well with it. Then get the best front end(s) your remaining budget allows.

Having a good local dealer is rare as dragon eggs nowadays. Showroom auditions are only slightly better than audio show demos. In home auditioning is the best way to go, but so difficult to do with so few local dealers. Sigh...

[1morerecord2clean]

For me it's the front end first. You can't put back what wasn't there to start no matter what follows it. That doesn't mean you can't ruin what comes first either.

[mep]

Great thread Myles. From my experiences I say get the best speaker you can afford and go from this end as far as your budget. Electronics and turntables are so much better for less than when I started this hobby in the 80s. I went from KEF LS50 to Joseph Pulsars to the Von Schweikert VR5 and the changes were major dramatic. One example in electronics is I have a ARC LS27 and then a ARC REF5SE, the change wasn't as near as dramatic. Just my philosophy and YMMV.

Nothing will be as dramatic as changing your speakers out. I never heard the LS-27 so I have no idea how it compares to the Ref 5SE. It would be hard to imagine that the Ref 5Se isn't the better preamp though. I can say the difference between the Ref 5Se and the Ref 6 isn't subtle.

[nc42acc]

Mark don't get me wrong it was a definite upgrade from the LS27 to the REF5SE but the switch in speakers was my biggest change.

Nothing will be as dramatic as changing your speakers out. I never heard the LS-27 so I have no idea how it compares to the Ref 5SE. It would be hard to imagine that the Ref 5Se isn't the better preamp though. I can say the difference between the Ref 5Se and the Ref 6 isn't subtle.

[nc42acc]

Allen I agree, find your "flavor" in a speaker you like and build from there.

I'm more of a speaker first type of guy. They are the most colored of components, so pick your poison slowly and carefully. Then find the amp that pairs well with it. Then get the best front end(s) your remaining budget allows.

Having a good local dealer is rare as dragon eggs nowadays. Showroom auditions are only slightly better than audio show demos. In home auditioning is the best way to go, but so difficult to do with so few local dealers. Sigh...

[MylesBAstor]

Allen I agree, find your "flavor" in a speaker you like and build from there.

But don't you think say the cartridge might be the most flavored thing in the system? Or the digital front-end?

[nc42acc]

Myles this question may be above my pay grade. In the analog world yes cartridges definitely have different "flavor" but I haven't heard but a fraction of what you and other members have. Funny how the two opposing areas of an audio system are the most "colorful"

But don't you think say the cartridge might be the most flavored thing in the system? Or the digital front-end?

[MylesBAstor]

Nothing will be as dramatic as changing your speakers out. I never heard the LS-27 so I have no idea how it compares to the Ref 5SE. It would be hard to imagine that the Ref 5Se isn't the better preamp though. I can say the difference between the Ref 5Se and the Ref 6 isn't subtle.

Let's play dramatic roles here:

Going from tube to solid-state electronics or vice versa;

Going from Class A/B or A to Class D

Going from push-pull to SE amplifiers;

Going from planar/estats to dynamic speakers;

[Going from dynamic to horn speakers;]

Going from NOS to new tubes;

Upgrading tonearms;

Going from stock to better quality, non-nickel plated, AC receptacles;

Going from MM/MI to MC cartridges (or throw a strain-gauge in for good measure);

Going from digital to analog or vice versa;

Going from anything to tape and back;

[nc42acc]

Myles you just proved how hard it is to put a blanket statement on how to best build an audio system. It is not easy with all the choices and options out there today.

[mep]

Let's play dramatic roles here:

Going from tube to solid-state electronics or vice versa;

There will be a big difference here too. Unless paired with the wrong speakers, tubes should sound more real.

Going from Class A/B or A to Class D

Never had a Class D amp n my system and I'm in no hurry.

Going from push-pull to SE amplifiers;

I haven't had a SE amp in my system either and I'm not really interested.

Going from planar/estats to dynamic speakers;

Have done that. I owned a pair of the original Martin Logan Aerius for years. Ran them with my 1/4 wavelength transmission line subs that I designed and built. I had many good years with that system.

[Going from dynamic to horn speakers;]

Never had horns either.

from NOS to new tubes;

Total crapshoot. I still have a bunch of NOS tubes (primarily the 12AU7 family and the 6922 family) and NOS doesn't mean it will sound better or be more quiet than current production tubes. It's a case by case thing and a tube by tube thing.

Upgrading tonearms;

I have done that and I love my SME 312S arm.

Going from stock to better quality, non-nickel plated, AC receptacles;

Haven't done that yet.

Going from MM/MI to MC cartridges (or throw a strain-gauge in for good measure);

Have done that as I grew up with MM/MI cartridges. Never looked back after my first MC.

Going from digital to analog or vice versa;

Do that all the time and no contest there.

Going from anything to tape and back;

That's always a reality check.

[MylesBAstor]

And proves there is no expert only self-proclaimed frauds.

Just like that person who says I have the perfect diet for everyone. In that case, run as far and as quickly away as you can.

But what one can have is a lot of experience and learn from their experiences. And share their missteps and adventures.

And when you think you know it all, it's time to leave the house.

[nc42acc]

Amen brother, best post of the forum!

And proves there is no expert only self-proclaimed frauds.

Just like that person who says I have the perfect diet for everyone. In that case, run as far and as quickly away as you can.

But what one can have is a lot of experience and learn from their experiences. And share their missteps and adventures.

And when you think you know it all, it's time to leave the house.

[allenh]

Myles, agree with everything you wrote, but you still need to listen to each of those components thru a pair of speakers. They will ultimately color everything upstream and if you don't like that color to begin with...