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  • Tube microphonics

    in using tubes for headphones and speakers I have found
    that there is at least two kinds of this noise.
    One is vibrations from speakers this is common
    but the second I really would like to know about so please read and comment
    tubes them selves seem to have a clarity some more than others
    a while back EML offered a globe anniversary addition
    it was a 45 solid plate globe
    it sold out fast and sapossedly had a very bad fail rate
    the sound was much better than the standard bottle head version. Why is this ? I have been told tubes vibrate inside from w at takes place and if the tubes are ridges as in bottle heads this causes some kind of microhonics
    does anyone know why.

    The next tooic i would like to add is sokid and mesh plates we all may agreee they sound different
    how and why is good place to start. I loves tubes in my setup somewhere.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    I also love tubes somewhere in my setup, but it can be over done, I remember a 3 large CNC'ed cased pre-amp, they had two for the power supply and it weighed over 150 lbs. It went for $85,000 about a dozen yeares ago. It made almost all my tubes microphonic and had too much gain, once the tubes started to break-in. The existing attenuator was not good enough to control this amp, which caused the manufacturer to create a fix with still another box, which contained the external attenuator. The owner / engineer's mother had bought him 6 million tubes for $50,000. I remember him picking a pair of output tubes, the size of quart glass milk bottles, out of which he designed a $65,000 power amp, which put him out of business. I remember asking how he was going to sell it since the tubes were the only pair, which were known to exist and his mother pulled the plug on his toy store. My Canary Audio setup caused me to re-think about how many tubes worked and how many were too much. The setup featured a 4 chassis pre-amp and mono-blocks loaded with 4 WE 300 B's per channel. Every chassis had too many tubes, the mono-blocks had 4 output tubes, 2 drivers and 2 rectifiers per channel. I remember battling hum and microphonics and it was unpredictable. Next I tried passive pre-amps, the ultimate being a Swiss Silver Rock transformer based passive pre, which listed for $18,000, I paid $9,000. This ended my experimentation with putting passive pre-amps directly in front of power amps and started what was the first of 3 integrated amps designed specifically around my chosen tube compliment. When a CD player with a tubed output stage started causing issues, I limited my tubes to the custom made integrateds. I have yet to figure out exactky why good NOS tubes sound better than even the most expensive current production tubes, so I am not close to knowing why mesh platessound better than solid plates in a given circuit. The best NOS driver tube, which I discovered was a Raytheon CK-5694, which was made for a single TI piece of test equipment. They made 4 physical design changes in only 7 years of production. Since the tube was not designed for audio use, I assumed the design changes related to the performance of TI's piece of test equipment. Trial & error is the only way I know which tubes work in any given piece of equipment. While, I will agree tube rolling is in the ears of the beholder , no one ever disagreed that the CK-5694 was the best driver tube ever made!

    Comment


    • #3
      The ck you speak of I have in other Brands it's a driver tube in my stuff. I could use it in three Amps
      as for a passive preamp. My msb stack has two analog inputs one SE and one BAL. from there I can do various features as in lift ground and a few others it does quite down or eliminate microphonics. I asked Luke of lampi about it. He said all tubes are microphonics in big ways it's a trade off and it is gain related. External vibrations can be dealt with in various ways. The inside kind is more difficult. I have posted on many forums of these issues and a few others with tubes. As many roll your first post here has some truth most don't know and the few that do rarly know why lol. My only tube rolling is for about 5 years and until my lampi came only recti and 300b or el34 variants in my woo Wes. Amd WA5 The best set he offered at the time was not good to me the drivers were the issue
      this caused me to read up on various 6sN7 and the GT
      well. Sophia elelcric a tube Company held in high regard
      I never liked any of them from recti tondrivers to output
      heyvaure look great but kill my litttle brain in sound
      analog stuff.
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
      Dacs lampi various

      Comment


      • #4
        The best 6SN7 is actually a pair of 6J5-GT's, each of which is electronically identical to one half of a 6SN7 and there are ready made 2 for 1 adapters on eBay for about $25 each or $50 for a pair. The 6SN7 followed the 6J5-GT and was a huge cost saving because it put two triodes in one bottle, but it was a step backwards in music reproduction because the older single triode per bottle tubes sound better. The widely accepted Holy Grail of the 6SN7 world are the GEC / Marconi 6SN7-GT with metal bases, I saw two pairs trade on eBay for $4,000 a pair. I have several quads of the 6J5-GT with metal bases, which easily best the GEC / Marconi's. Vacuum tube dealers will not discuss the 6J5-GT and it's variants because not one of them has an NOS quad in stock. (Remember, you need a quad to make a pair)

        Comment


        • #5
          Excellent can be kind and post some links please. Adaptors as well. I don't know if I have room for two unless they stack somehow but in my head dac I have plenty of room. Thanks for posting
          analog stuff.
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
          sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
          new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
          thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
          thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
          kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
          phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
          mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
          Dacs lampi various

          Comment


          • #6
            http://www.ebay.com/p/Raytheon-6J5GT...cket/140992944
            is this the tubes ?
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • Dr.Ears
              Dr.Ears commented
              Editing a comment
              Search eBay for this item number 361475351259 , they are what real 6J5-GT's look like, but they are not a matched pair and they do not appear to be NOS.

            • Dr.Ears
              Dr.Ears commented
              Editing a comment
              Here are the adapters, search for this eBay item number: 191530248252

            • Dr.Ears
              Dr.Ears commented
              Editing a comment
              Those are actually mis-labeled 6J5-WGT, which feature a ruggedized construction, which do not sound nearly as good as the 6J5-GT.

          • #7
            I found it all. No good on woo Amps but fine in the head dac. What brand to buy and years or style. The best I got is the vt99 as I said of this is much better that's a great deal. The gain is less on the vt99 tubes
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #8
              Cooking on the Barbie now. I'll post what I done Ina few and thanks.
              Mykes toue site rocks
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #9
                How about some el34 mallards I have goild lion and two other brands others are shungon amd ps vane.
                They are better than the stock from woo on the Wes
                i also owns blue Hawaii es amp as well it came with mallards of some kind. They all are ok it's the drivers that were bad
                analog stuff.
                otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                Dacs lampi various

                Comment


                • #10
                  I will search if they are good I can make some adsprtors for the woo Wes and woo WA5 And angle or riser above or angle back.
                  Thanks
                  analog stuff.
                  otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                  otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                  sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                  new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                  thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                  thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                  kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                  phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                  speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                  mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                  digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                  Dacs lampi various

                  Comment


                  • #11

                    The widely accepted Holy Grail of the 6SN7 world are the GEC / Marconi 6SN7-GT with metal bases,

                    I am not disagreeing but, as I understood it the 6SN7 Holy Grail was the Tung Sol Round Plates???

                    Comment


                    • Dr.Ears
                      Dr.Ears commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The 6FG8's feature the top connection, the wire to the top connection becomes an antenna, which picks up a lot of signals, which you don't want to pick up. In addition, light can hurt them, which is why they were meant to be used in vintage radios where the tubes were not exposed to light. They have to be throughly coated to avoid the light issue.

                    • Dr.Ears
                      Dr.Ears commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I have Hitachi 6SN7, made on Mullard equipment in Japan, which took the TunggSols, which you mentioned right out of my reference system. It took less than one minute after warm-up for me to notice the huge difference. The Hitachi's made the TungSols sound lifeless and nearly dead. I no longer use 6SN7's and can probably find some good ones, if you let me know how many you need.
                      I also can spare a quad or two of the 6J5-GT's (metal bases with normal bottle) and 6J5-G (micinol bases with the miniature "ST" or Coke bottle shape) NOTE: The GEC / Marconi's traded at $4,000 per pair, while the TungSols can be found at $400 per pair or less.
                      The market cannot be making that large a mistake.

                  • #12
                    I have those tubes you mentioned. Some of the tube pics I feel are choices and I very rarly will say best. But I do say I think it's best. I have posted on many forums regarding tube rolling for lampi dacs. The arguments there prevail
                    now the tubes dr ears has recommended are really cheap even with the sockets maybe two hundred with sockets for a quad set a worthwhile trial. Now I wish he would of tried himself the vt99. For me it smokes the next best you mentioned. I use this driver in here in two woo headphone Amps and my lampi headphone dac. In fact I hated my 12 k stat rig until I used that tube.
                    A fellow headfi friend turned me onto some of the tubes
                    and while they look like a Frankenstein experiment for me it's the sound not the looks.
                    analog stuff.
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                    Dacs lampi various

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Typo I don't have metal bases but do have many of the brand in various styles. Sorry I typed too fast
                      analog stuff.
                      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                      otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                      sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                      new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                      thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                      thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                      kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                      phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                      speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                      mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                      digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                      Dacs lampi various

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Well I am ready to try some of these 6J5-GT tubes so tell me which ones to look for?

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Pm dr ears one of the most knkwlegible persons I know of these types of tubes. I made notes on the many pairs I tested and compared to his thoughts we agreed on all.
                          Not saying I am smart lol. But he to get two people to agree is a mile stone of sorts. Also post what he says as well
                          analog stuff.
                          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                          otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                          sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                          new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                          thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                          thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                          kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                          phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                          speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                          mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                          digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                          Dacs lampi various

                          Comment

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