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  • Speaker Matching Question

    I have a question regarding the VPI 299D Amp.

    I am building a system for our corporate conference room and we picked up a VPI 299D amp. This all tube amp has 38w into 8ohms.

    The speakers that have been made available to us through a contact are Revels. Either the Performa3 M206 or M106. Both of these speakers list a min wattage of 50W. The Sensitivities respectively are 88db & 87db.

    The room is not that big, roughly 10’x14’ with a Louise ceiling. Do you think this will work or should we try to go another route with more sensitive speakers? We don’t need to rattle the walls, as this is in an office but I wouldn’t want the system to be anemic.

  • #2
    Go get some iron pills lol. Just kidding. I would not know
    but it is way below what they ask and low end and weight may suffer.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the Revels really need power. That said, you might be able to get away with it since you're at the office.?
      Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
      Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
      ________________________________________

      -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
      -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
      -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
      -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
      -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
      -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
      -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
      -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
      -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
      -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm a high power guy,but for your intended use,give it a try.
        Preamp Accuphase C200 modded, Agtron Platinum Mono Blocks,ParAcas Satellites,dual subwoofer,Velodyne FSR18,Monarchy NM24 modded tube DAC,NBS Statement ,Master,Pro cables,Crown 844's & 824 R2R,Technics table,Linn LP12,Ampex R2R MR70's,AG440B-C,350,Studer C37

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting. The VPI 299D integrated amp was a limited edition of only 100 units. I've never heard one but it is probably very good sounding. I would definitely try it on the Revel's to see how they sound in your small room. Could be great.

          See the review http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2...tube-amplifier
          Speakers/Amps: Genesis G2.2 Jr with Powered Servo-Sub Bass, Genesis GR1440 Mono Amps, 5,000 watts total power
          Preamp: SMc Audio VRE-1C Preamp (fully balanced inputs and output)
          Analog 1: VPI Signature 21 Belt-Drive Turntable w/ 10” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Windfeld Ti Phono Cartridge driving Lehmann Silver Cube Phono Preamp
          Analog 2: VPI HW-40 Direct-Drive Turntable w/ 12” 3D Printed Fatboy Gimbal Arm and Ortofon MC Anna Diamond Phono Cartridge driving Genesis Gold Phono Preamp
          Analog 3: Studer A810 R2R tape w/ Bridge Console. Using built-in tape preamp
          Digital: Lumin Network Player with Lumin NAS
          Cables: Genesis Advanced Technologies/Absolute Fidelity Interface Interconnects, Speaker, Phono and Power
          A/C Power: Extensive System Upgrades, Sub-panel w/hard-wired power cables, and IsoTek Super Titan Passive Power Conditioning for Amplifiers
          Accessories: Custom Acrylic Equipment Stands, Klaudio Ultrasonic RCM

          Comment


          • #6
            I own Revel Studios for many years. Ran them on 100W pure class A solid state. Now running on 150w A/B which is better. Less than 100 is not a go from Audiophile standards and dedicated listening. Could be acceptable for casual listening depending on the space.
            Turntable: TW Acustic TT with Ref motor & controller; Tri-Planar Arm; Ortofon Windfeld-Ti Cartridge, Harmonix-Combak platter mat & weight; PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp; KLAudio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner.

            Digital: Bluesound Vault-2 Music Server & Streamer

            Amplification: PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp, VTL 6.5 preamp Series II, Pass Labs 150.8 Amp

            Loudspeakers: Piega C711 Loudspeakers

            Isolation: Symposium Osiris Rack; Symposium Platforms and Roller Blocks plus grade 2.5 Balls

            Misc: PS Audio Noise Harvesters, Acoustic Revive RR-888 Low Frequency Pulse Generator, Synergistic Research 12 UEF SE Line Conditioner, Level 3 HC AC Cord and Level 3 power cords, Synergistic Carbon fiber wall plates, Synergistic Research Orange Outlet, Furutech NCF Booster Braces, Audio Art Ref IC, MIT Oracle IC, synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria Level 3 Balanced ICs, Synergistic Research Euphoria Level 3 Speaker Cables, Synergistic Research Cable Risers.

            Sennheiser HDV 650 Headphone Amp; Sennheiser HD800s Headphones.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have been using a VPI 299D for over a year with a variety of speakers and have experienced no problems with any of them. Currently they're driving Fritz Carrera 7BE also rated at 87db with no problems. The VPI/Fritz combination is wonderful imho. The only caveat I would give is that I like to listen at the 70-90 db loudness range - no arena rock levels for me.

              Comment


              • #8
                It should be fine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is a good example of understanding your preferences!

                  If you know you like tubes, select the tube amp first and then find speakers you like with the amp! Don't do it the other way around or you'll be flushing $$$$ down the loo.

                  If you fall in love with a certain speaker and it only works with amps that are not the kind you like then you are in trouble!

                  In this case, Revels are well-known for needing power. The amp only makes 38 watts at full power; this is a poor match. You want a speaker that is an easier load and also more efficient. I know you're probably not going to be playing it all that loud so its possible you won't be clipping the amp, but if you really want to hear the best of any amplifier (tube, solid state, class D) then the first rule of thumb is don't make the amp work hard. The reason for this is visible in the spec sheets of all amplifiers- they will make higher distortion the harder you make them work. So your target speaker in this case should be one with higher efficiency (92 db 1 watt 1 meter as a minimum) and at least 8 ohms (especially in the bass region). The reason is that output transformers work better when driving higher impedances; you can loose as much as an octave off the bottom end simply by going from the 8 ohm tap (properly loaded) to the 4 ohm tap (properly loaded).

                  Beware- a speaker that is 4 ohms and advertised as 92 db sensitivity has an actual efficiency of 89db. So if sensitivity is specified instead of efficiency, make sure that the speaker is 8 ohms. If its 4 ohms subtract 3 db.

                  Now if you like solid state then the Revels will be fine- and get yourself a 150w/channel amp so it won't have to work too hard!

                  Comment


                  • Dr.Ears
                    Dr.Ears commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I disagree because I believe speakers are the most important component in a system. I have found many amps capable of driving my speakers, which is why my system was built around my speakers.

                • #10
                  Originally posted by atmasphere View Post
                  This is a good example of understanding your preferences!

                  If you know you like tubes, select the tube amp first and then find speakers you like with the amp! Don't do it the other way around or you'll be flushing $$$$ down the loo.

                  If you fall in love with a certain speaker and it only works with amps that are not the kind you like then you are in trouble!

                  In this case, Revels are well-known for needing power. The amp only makes 38 watts at full power; this is a poor match. You want a speaker that is an easier load and also more efficient. I know you're probably not going to be playing it all that loud so its possible you won't be clipping the amp, but if you really want to hear the best of any amplifier (tube, solid state, class D) then the first rule of thumb is don't make the amp work hard. The reason for this is visible in the spec sheets of all amplifiers- they will make higher distortion the harder you make them work. So your target speaker in this case should be one with higher efficiency (92 db 1 watt 1 meter as a minimum) and at least 8 ohms (especially in the bass region). The reason is that output transformers work better when driving higher impedances; you can loose as much as an octave off the bottom end simply by going from the 8 ohm tap (properly loaded) to the 4 ohm tap (properly loaded).

                  Beware- a speaker that is 4 ohms and advertised as 92 db sensitivity has an actual efficiency of 89db. So if sensitivity is specified instead of efficiency, make sure that the speaker is 8 ohms. If its 4 ohms subtract 3 db.

                  Now if you like solid state then the Revels will be fine- and get yourself a 150w/channel amp so it won't have to work too hard!
                  Agreed totally.

                  In this particular case, I'd go with at least 60W, conservatively speaking.
                  Last edited by Hugh; 04-06-2017, 05:03 PM.
                  Hugh Nguyen
                  ACA

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Fritz speakers present an easy load for tube amps. 8 ohms nominal impedance, never dropping below 6 ohms. I don't know anything about the Revels.

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