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  • Speaker wires.

    I recently went to one dual Mono amp in the middle of my towers
    it was two each only using one channel with an amp right behind each tower allowing me to have very short speaker wires.
    Now haveibg the amp in the middle means I need 5 feet lengths i habe tried a few kinds of simple lamp cords from 14 to 12 gaguge. They do sound different
    for me pure copper not silver plated always sounded good. I have something I would like to try
    I never did for speakers
    use two 12 gaguge in parallel
    so my question is this. The wire comes with two attached
    as a pair
    my first plan is to do as they come and twist or weave the paired wires. Or do I just leave them separate laying next to each other. I say this as wire has all the normal properties of cap , ind and res reutling I an imp across the Amps and speakers. Not knowing for sure but I'll bet it's why varying speaker wires do sound different even given same gauge
    as I am an engineer and lisc electrician I battle with my reality and audio reality that is filled with smoke and mirrors but most or some really do matter. Doing a quick thought tells me keeping them apart would yield the least reactance of the above and haveib a heavy gauge yields best power conductance.
    I do know some amps needs the above reactance to a point I think. So anyway.
    Please give me some advice all ideas are welcome
    thanks all in advance for your thoughts in this.
    analog stuff.
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
    Dacs lampi various

  • #2
    Hi Al,
    You should try the wire single run and see if you like it or not first, later you can experiment with multiple runs and braiding as this will not change the basic sound of your wire. Sometimes the additional runs can bring some solidity and other times introduce noise, it all depends on the wire and your setup but their sound won't change.

    I'm with you on pure copper wires!

    david
    Manufacturer: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack
    Distribution: NEODIO

    Special Sales: van den Hul
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    Comment


    • #3
      For about $15 you can get 10 feet of Canare 4S11 cable, cut it in half and terminate it yourself. It's four strands so you can also terminate the speaker end for bi-wiring if you need it. Surprisingly good cable. I like my much more expensive Vermouth and Morrow Audio cables better, but realistically, the difference is pretty small (small enough that I question the value, at least in the context of my system, of using more expensive cables). I decided to try it originally on the recommendation of the folks at Benchmark.
      Steve Lefkowicz
      Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
      -
      Analog 1: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 10X5 MK.II Low, iPhono2/iPowerX; Analog 2: Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Talisman S, iFi iPhono.
      Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 28, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz Studio), iFi NEO iDSD, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2, Audioquest Jitterbug.
      Electronics: DIY passive line-stage, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso
      Speakers: Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7
      Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Audioquest Evergreen
      Speaker cables: Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet, Audioquest Type 5
      Digital cables: Aural Symphonics USB, iFi Gemini twin-head USB.
      Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan rack, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
      Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 600 ohm, DT770 Studio 80 ohm, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More Triple Driver IEM

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks both of you. I played music with very short wire used before by moving the ext cross overs to the side of each tower all same wires. Then I did one run new wire still all copper 12 gauge and 4 feet as apprised to 12 inches
        then doubled the four foot 12 gauge. Both side by side and twisted. The truth I can hear no change worse or better. I also tried the old mit 8 gauge it rolls the top end off a notible change. All connections crimped and soldered with all copper lugs.
        Interconnects matter so much more than this did
        in the end we as each of us alone must be happy. I'll shut up and be happy. Selling these soon anyway then I'll set up the rs1b with my Deqx as a TRI amped cross over and let the Deqx set it up first I'll miss these big guys for sure
        having heard many greet setups they have such a big sound it's tough to go smaller.
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          Geometry has a big effect on a cable's electrical characteristics. So does dielectric.

      • #5
        I also have noticed that, in my system at least, interconnects effect the sound quality more than speaker cables. Trying stuff and experimenting is part of what makes this hobby fun!
        Steve Lefkowicz
        Senior Associate Editor at Positive Feedback
        -
        Analog 1: Linn LP12 (MOSE/Hercules II), Ittok, Dynavector 10X5 MK.II Low, iPhono2/iPowerX; Analog 2: Pro-Ject RPM-1 Carbon, Talisman S, iFi iPhono.
        Digital: Samsung 300E5C notebook, JRiver Media Center 28, Tidal HiFi, Qobuz Studio), iFi NEO iDSD, iFi iUSB3, iPurifier2, Audioquest Jitterbug.
        Electronics: DIY passive line-stage, Antique Sound Labs MG-SI15DT-S, Burson Timekeeper Virtuoso
        Speakers: Tekton Lore, Magneplaner .7
        Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA1, Vermouth Audio Black Pearl, Audioquest Evergreen
        Speaker cables: Morrow Audio SP4, Vermouth Audio Red Velvet, Audioquest Type 5
        Digital cables: Aural Symphonics USB, iFi Gemini twin-head USB.
        Accessories: Sound Organization turntable shelf, Mondo racks, Pangea Audio Vulcan rack, Pi Audio Group Über BUSS, Monster HTS2000 power conditioner, Kinetronics anti-static brush, Pro-Ject VC-S record cleaner, Spin Clean record cleaner.
        Headphones: Schiit Valhalla amp, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Amp, Meze Audio 99 Classic and 99 Neo, Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 600 ohm, DT770 Studio 80 ohm, 1More Triple Driver Over Ear, 1More Triple Driver IEM

        Comment


        • MylesBAstor
          MylesBAstor commented
          Editing a comment
          Maybe that's due to the output impedance of your preamp or phono section?

        • Steve Lefkowicz
          Steve Lefkowicz commented
          Editing a comment
          Likely. The output impedance of the Burson Conductor Virtuoso is listed as 30 ohms, and my other line stage is basically a TKD 10K pot,so the output impedance varies with volume.

          I think another factor in my case is the fact that I use relatively inexpensive speakers,that aren't as revealing, and certainly don't have as complex a crossover, as more expensive speakers like your Magicos. Sure, switching between the fours sets of speaker cable I have shows they are clearly different, but the differences are small, and smaller than what i get switching between the various interconnects I have.

      • #6
        Agreed on interconnects and it makes sense too. Given there is much more going on with them. Hobby Not fun crazy I hate this hobby in some ways.
        Just read our posts each of us has our own concepts lol.
        I love it here because it's calm and no one really posts that are others are stupid.eevn one may be me for sure hahaha. I learn all the time here that is true. I May seem argumentive but I am an agnostic and given what I do for a living power alone drives me nuts.
        But it all does matter. And thanks for your replies.
        analog stuff.
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
        otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
        sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
        new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
        thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
        thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
        kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
        phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
        speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
        mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
        digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
        Dacs lampi various

        Comment


        • #7
          I don't know. In my head, I look at there being three things going on with cables that have separate and different requirements.

          phono cable (having to deal with cartridge phonostage interactions and low level signals)
          interconnects (having to match and deal with higher level signals)
          speaker cable (having to deal with the complex interactions between the amp, speaker xover and drivers)

          All three can have significant differences upon a system's sound in my experience.

          Just my 2 cents.
          Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
          Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
          ________________________________________

          -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
          -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
          -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
          -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
          -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
          -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
          -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
          -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
          -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
          -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by david k View Post
            Hi Al,
            You should try the wire single run and see if you like it or not first, later you can experiment with multiple runs and braiding as this will not change the basic sound of your wire. Sometimes the additional runs can bring some solidity and other times introduce noise, it all depends on the wire and your setup but their sound won't change.

            I'm with you on pure copper wires!

            david
            How pure is pure? Then you have the issue of connectors and whether or not to solder.
            Myles B. Astor, PhD, Administrator
            Senior Editor, Positive-Feedback.com
            ________________________________________

            -Zellaton Plural Evo speakers
            -Goldmund Telos 300 stereo amp
            -Goldmund Mimesis 37S Nextgen preamplifier
            -Doshi EVO and Goldmund PH3.8 phonostage
            -VPI Vanquish direct-drive turntable
            -VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy dual pivot tonearm, VPI 12-inch 3D Fat Boy gimballed and SAT LM-12 arm
            -Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, Fuuga Mk. 2, vdh Colibri Master Signature, MutechHayabusa, MOFI Master Tracker, Sumiko Songbird cartridges
            -Technics RS1506 with Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi V3.0 tape stage (balanced)
            -Assorted cables including Transparent XL Gen. 6, Skogrand, Viero, Kubala-Sosna, Audience Au24SX, Genesis Advanced Technologies and Ensemble Power Cords
            -Accessories including Stillpoint Aperture panels, Cathedral Sound panels, Furutech NCF Nano AC receptacles; Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC, Symposium ISIS and SRA Craz 3 racks, Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Symposium Ultra and assorted SRA OHIO Class 2.1+ platforms.

            Comment


            • david k
              david k commented
              Editing a comment
              By pure I meant that it's not blended with other types of conductors, three nines is good enough for me. Regular OFC is good too but not OHNO. But in the end you gotta try and find out, too many variables even between zip cords.

              You're right about the termination, they can change the character of the cable or introduce a hot spot or add other undesired coloration. I prefer unterminated raw wire best but there are some good spades around without adverse effects.
              david

            • MylesBAstor
              MylesBAstor commented
              Editing a comment
              Ok got it! 🙂

          • #9
            Today was speaker wire day. I tried things in many ways
            at the end very little if any changes with same wires various configs. I now have 4 foot 12 gauge each doubled meaning using one pair for positive and the other pair negative I then twisted them. David is right nothing to put my figure on in one pair or two pairs posible a bit more pronounced in low end of mids
            no rolled off highs or negative effects
            and I played welll known tracks loud really loud like I could hear all kinds of stuff not heard before both musical and noises in the studio. Opus three no three house of the rising sun has creaking sounds during low parts

            I played dsd and pcm and tidal I am very happy how they sound. Truly stunning sound coming from a stage a large one.
            analog stuff.
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
            otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
            sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
            new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
            thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
            thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
            kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
            phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
            speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
            mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
            digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
            Dacs lampi various

            Comment


            • #10
              Electrically I can think of many but this is audio normal rules don't seem to apply always. I still cannot figure out why 8 gauge copper silver plated wires roloff highs so badly on these speakers but sound great on the the RS1b
              setup.
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • MylesBAstor
                MylesBAstor commented
                Editing a comment
                Because lots of other factors other just conductor material. There is no perfect cable. In my experience, all things being equal, silver has a signature and copper has a different signature.

            • #11
              I agree. In headphones it adds a brighter top end
              in speakers it's the same but with these speakers it's not good they already have plenty. For me this hobby is crazy
              But having forums like this one are a medication for it
              reading how others feel helps each of us me for sure that we do hear changes that to me make no sense
              analog stuff.
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
              otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
              sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
              new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
              thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
              thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
              kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
              phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
              speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
              mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
              digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
              Dacs lampi various

              Comment


              • #12
                N/A
                Last edited by Dr.Ears; 02-08-2018, 02:05 PM.

                Comment


                • Rust
                  Rust commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I disagree that silver oxide is a better conductor than metallic silver. Granted, silver oxide is a better conductor than copper oxide which has poor conductivity so a tarnished silver contact point is better than a tarnished copper contact point. But the resistivity of silver oxide is higher and conductivity lower than pure metallic silver.

                  Graphene is currently the only material with lower resistivity than silver at standard temperature, 1 X 10 to the -8th power vs 1.59 X 10 -8th power.

              • #13
                N/A
                Last edited by Dr.Ears; 02-08-2018, 02:06 PM.

                Comment


                • #14
                  Living in the Fla. Panhandle humidity can be a concern in the summer. Caig products work as well as anything I've found for connection maintenance.

                  I'm currently using Kimber Silver Streak for interconnects after comparing them to the previously used DH Labs BL-1s. The Kimbers use a silver signal wire and copper return while the DH Labs use silver plated copper. In my system the Kimbers has better detail albeit at nearly five times the price. Which means the DH Labs represent a lot of value for the money. Both take time to break in, which appears to be a characteristic of anything with silver.

                  Speaker wires are currently Kimber 12TC. Compared to three previous cables, the 12TCs are much larger, 8 gauge. The improvements were immediately noticeable with better bass and a better presentation across the frequency range. I view these as a really sweet point as I've tried several far more expensive cables with minimal if any improvement. I suspect with large speakers and pushing a generous amount of wattage size matters.

                  Terminations are a sore point with me for speaker wires. I view high pressure crimping as the best way. Using a hydraulic crimper the connection is gas tight. In the industrial field, crimps are made with calibrated tools for small stuff, and really heavy duty hydraulic tools and dies for the big stuff. Each and every crimp is inspected by QA in critical applications. I note that Cardas uses such a system.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    I would not crimp my connections but choose to solder . I do crimp gently to hold in place then solder . I had a bunch of copper lugs to play with.
                    I could hear anything over crimp or solder though. I did get a minor improvement over single run and double 12 gauge . A bit more weight and it was repeatible thanks david k. No change in twist or not laying next to each other or kept separate. I really love the sound as is. I pit some thought into the fat mit cables that sound bad . Somehow there must be capsidence added to the cable this must roll off the highs . I sold my cap tester years ago so who knows.
                    analog stuff.
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 made new by soren
                    otari mtr 10 2 track 1/4 1/2 combo made new by soren
                    sota sapphire used eminent tech ver 2 arm
                    new sota nova table has magnetic levitation platter and full speed control and latest motor same arm as above
                    thorens td124 sme ver 2 arm
                    thorens td125 sme ver 2 arm
                    kenwood direct drive sme ver 2 arm
                    phono preamp Ml no 25 all re capped
                    speakers cust infinity IRS V , new caps and LPS , magnets etc.
                    mark levivson pre no 26 amps no 33
                    digital three cust servers , win ser 2016 , AO
                    Dacs lampi various

                    Comment

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